Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

He killed himself?

Someone killed him.

Think of the implications of your words.

Of course he was murdered...


Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

John 10:17-18

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. NO ONE TAKES IT FROM ME, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Sean

Rather, Jehovah God is inside the "flesh".

The glorified body of His begotten, glorified, omnipresent son.


God did not die, resurrect Himself, glorify Himself then speak through Himself about "His God".

There is a multiplicity and a singularity to GOD that we will not understand as human beings. Some may claim to know more than others about the Godhood of God, but ultimately, we only know what the scriptures have clearly stated.

"Let us make man in our image..."

"Behold Israel, the Lord our GOD is One."

"The Lord said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

"Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given. And His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

"And I heard the voice of God saying, "Who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me!"

The scriptures may seem contradictory, but "faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen."

All we have is the Word of God. Even if you actually could understand all of the mysteries, it wouldn't profit you anything without love-- which stands to reason that if there are some mysteries you do not understand, but you have love, then your profits are huge!

And admittedly, the bolded statement above is opinion-- though I consider it to be an informed opinion and not mere conjecture.

[Sean]

Well JD, all this began as I was teaching on the oneness/crucifixion for decades. It seemed that the more I had folks read as I narrated, I would see the 2 persons.

I was trained from the get-go to view them as the same person, but the book of John in particular(also the beginnings of the Epistles) slowly eroded my position.

I found myself teaching God INSIDE Christ alot, when on the Godhead subject.(dont know why).

I think the straw that broke the camel's back was finding out the H/U doctrine originated in Catholicism.

I just took a look at the Bible in the 2 person mode and the entire N.T. began to be clearer and easier to read/explain.

Now, I am wanting feedback/debate on this issue by anyone interested.

I pray everyday for the truth of the Godhead as portrayed in the 1st century church.

I hope God confirms one way or the other which way is Biblically correct.

So far, I get wise cracks for answers(mostly) so I just stay the course.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

1) I hope you do not want to play a game of semantics. I Tiimothy 3:16 that Jesus Christ is the Almighty God in human flesh. God came "down through 40 and 2 generations" at the right time to robe Himself in flesh to bring salvation for the souls of men.

2) God used the Holy Spirit to get Mary pregnant. Any thing more than this is uninformed opinion. The truth is that THIS MYSTERY is great and I doubt it will be solved by an anonymous poster on AFF.

3) Mary was BLESSED. A blessing is given to someone without merit or effort. Mary was not 50% involved in the conception of Christ. Again, the Bible says the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. Any ideas that go beyond this is conjecture. I am specifically using the word, "conjecture" because we just do not have enough information to even have an intelligent opinion on this matter-- other than what is CLEARLY stated by scripture.

4) Conjecture. For all we know, GOD could have mooshed the sperm from Joseph with the egg from Mary with the Holy Spirit pouring anointing oil on what the KJV calls "that holy thing".... We. Just. Don't. Have. Enough. information. To. Have. An. Informed. Opinion. On. This.

Why can't great mysteries remain as great mysteries until God chooses to reveal them?

Jesus Christ is the Son of man and the Son of God because the Bible says so.

1 Tim3:16 does not say the highlighted(above).


It says God was revealed inside Jesus.

2 Cor 5:19 verifies that.


By you drawing a "blank" on the conception of Christ automatically puts you in the "divine implant" mode.

Thus, Jesus is not the true son of man, nor Mary's biological son.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

John 10:17-18

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. NO ONE TAKES IT FROM ME, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Right, he let them MURDER him.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

He killed himself?

Someone killed him.

Think of the implications of your words.

Of course he was murdered...


Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Sean

Well JD, all this began as I was teaching on the oneness/crucifixion for decades. It seemed that the more I had folks read as I narrated, I would see the 2 persons.

I was trained from the get-go to view them as the same person, but the book of John in particular(also the beginnings of the Epistles) slowly eroded my position.

I found myself teaching God INSIDE Christ alot, when on the Godhead subject.(dont know why).

I think the straw that broke the camel's back was finding out the H/U doctrine originated in Catholicism.

I just took a look at the Bible in the 2 person mode and the entire N.T. began to be clearer and easier to read/explain.

Now, I am wanting feedback/debate on this issue by anyone interested.

I pray everyday for the truth of the Godhead as portrayed in the 1st century church.

I hope God confirms one way or the other which way is Biblically correct.

So far, I get wise cracks for answers(mostly) so I just stay the course.

It is so easy to make wise cracks. In fact, I started to make a wise crack towards you earlier this evening but I am glad I decided against it.

How do you interpret John 1:10?

What is the H/U doctrine? The Hypostatic Union? The Holy Canon comes from the Catholic Church-- should we deny that as well because God decided to use the Catholics to pass down His Holy Writ?

The 2 person mode? John 1:1 and 1:2 establishes the Hypostatic Union and (reads to me) to suggest a Biblical foundation for both the Oneness view and Trinitarian view of God. However, I do not see these scriptures suggesting a 2-mode Jesus.

I would like to use the scriptures to refute your position-- but not in the spirit of debate. It could be more like iron sharpening iron-- but we would need to stick to scripture, using our opinions SPARINGLY to justify our thoughts.

As for the Godhead, again, what makes you think that any human being could actually fathom all that there is to God, all that makes up God? How can the creation figure out His Creator when our Creator spoke through one of His Apostles telling us that the nature of God is a great mystery? We see through a glass darkly-- not because the glass is smudged by human influence and history, but by the design of our Creator, we see through the glass darkly.

What I am saying is that I sincerely doubt that you could actually prove your point using scripture alone, without making some serious, serious leaps of logic.

I can engage in dialogue with you, but the Bible must be our primary source with any bible-informed opinions used sparingly.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

Now, you see how easy that is to explain at face value, TK?

Right, God in Jesus speaking through him, not God becoming Jesus and pretending to be another person who has a God.

"See how easy that is to explain"??

I read your every post. They are laughable.

Sean, posting a passage with added bolds or enlarged font sizes is not the same thing as an explanation. Jesus never explained scriptures your way. Neither did the apostles. They would use Scripture within a lesson or a parable they taught. You do nothing even close to that.

Hilariously, you reposted many of the same passages I used and somehow you posting them is supposed to negate my usage of the same passages?? Hilarious!

You'd be a blast to debate live.

[Sean]

You laugh at God inside Jesus?

That is all I wanted to portray.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

John 10:17-18

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. NO ONE TAKES IT FROM ME, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Be careful, your usage of Scripture is only going to confuse The Sean.