When the Pharisees Accused Jesus of Being used by the Devil...

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Chan

Satan didn't force them to lie, they chose to do it. Did Satan entice them to do it? Certainly, but the choice to lie was still theirs and they made that choice..

I understand your desire not to make satan out to be overly powerful, but I think you are doing it at the cost of making him out to be very wimpy. I've seen the strength of his power when working with a demon-possessed friend and I was literally dealing with two different characters and the battle with the two identities was clearly evident...in one voice my friend was pleading me for help and in another demonic voice he opposed me. The stronghold was evident and there was no denying the power of it!

[Nahum]

Whoops! I think I'll be leaving now.

[SDG]

Hmmm ... this is not about psychology is it ...??? Rhoni????

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If I study World Religions or anthropology in college does it mean I cannot use some of my experiences and eduacation as a Minister of the Gospel ... CC... I think no one would deny the counseling should be bible-based but to say that we can't learn from the secular world is to be oblivious ....

No one said we can't learn from the secular world. However, we also can't take worldly wisdom, values, beliefs, philosophies (such as psychology) and bring them into the Church as if they were Truth. Bringing psychology into the Church is like bringing the philosophies of Plato or Nietzche or Ayn Rand or Bertrand Russell into the Church or like bringing in evolution as a theory of origins or bringing in Buddhism or Taoism.

Worldly philosophies are not entitled to consideration as absolute truth (not that there's any other kind of truth). Not even "science," which even most Christians seem to accept without question, is entitled to the elevated status of absolute truth.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Chan

There's a difference between being possessed by demons and someone being "of" the devil. The point of the matter is, though, that we must not be so quick to go around accusing people of being "of the devil," particularly people in whom the Spirit of God resides.

I agree with this.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Hmmm ... this is not about psychology is it ...??? Rhoni????

Bruddah... what I miss??

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Hmmm ... this is not about psychology is it ...??? Rhoni????

Not a bit...

Originally Posted by J-Roc

I understand your desire not to make satan out to be overly powerful, but I think you are doing it at the cost of making him out to be very wimpy. I've seen the strength of his power when working with a demon-possessed friend and I was literally dealing with two different characters and the battle with the two identities was clearly evident...in one voice my friend was pleading me for help and in another demonic voice he opposed me. The stronghold was evident and there was no denying the power of it!

Satan is certainly not "wimpy" but he really does not have any power over the Christian that the Christian does not allow him to have.

I don't deny that there is such a thing as demon possession (I'd better not deny it, the Bible makes it abundantly clear that it exists) but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Hmmm ... this is not about psychology is it ...??? Rhoni????

No, it's about people being accused of being used by the devil.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Chan

Psychology is a worldly philosophy. Because it is a worldly philosophy, that makes it wicked (because it is worldly wisdom originating in a wicked world). There is nothing good in any worldly philosophy/wisdom. Paul said that the wisdom of this world (which would include psychology) is foolishness to God. That being the case, there is no place for worldly wisdom in the Church.

Now this is too extreme, brutha.