The House Church:

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Joelel,

...I believe in universal health care and common sense programs....

That's an oxymoron

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Joelel,

That wasn't my point. My point was that they sold all they had. Brother, I'm a firm believer in helping the poor. I've written post after post on gleaning and our nation's responsibility to those in need and how we as Christians have to be advocates for the poor.

You can ask most of the long time posters here, I'm almost regarded by some as being a socialist because I believe in universal health care and common sense programs helping the least among us.

Truly we live in a great country for helping the poor,other nations are a bit better.Alot of nations can't help the poor.The way I see it though, it is the churches place to take care of their believers,not the nations job.The church are to take care of the widows too,that they don't do.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Truly we live in a great country for helping the poor,other nations are a bit better.Alot of nations can't help the poor.The way I see it though, it is the churches place to take care of their believers,not the nations job.The church are to take care of the widows too,that they don't do.

And... while another thread debates whether the tithe is a command no one mentions that the same law that gave us the tithe also gave instruction that 20% of it be used to pay priests, levites, musicians, porters etc and the other 80% was to feed the poor, widows, orphans, strangers.

Those who work so hard to make sure it is understood that the tithe is a requirement never seem to work so hard to make sure that that requirement follow its full measure of instruction.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

That's an oxymoron

How would universal health care be oxymoron ?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

And... while another thread debates whether the tithe is a command no one mentions that the same law that gave us the tithe also gave instruction that 20% of it be used to pay priests, levites, musicians, porters etc and the other 80% was to feed the poor, widows, orphans, strangers.

Those who work so hard to make sure it is understood that the tithe is a requirement never seem to work so hard to make sure that that requirement follow its full measure of instruction.

I don't know what the % was but something like that.You have the scripture on that ? I do believe we are to give all we can if someone is in need.Some people may not be able to give 10% and others much more.I don't see where we are to pay a set 10% under grace.Some things from the law was changed.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Joelel

I don't know what the % was but something like that.You have the scripture on that ? I do believe we are to give all we can if someone is in need.Some people may not be able to give 10% and others much more.I don't see where we are to pay a set 10% under grace.Some things from the law was changed.

Oh I agree completely. I am not one of who feels the tithe is a command in the NT.... Like all of the law... we have a new and better covenant.

In the OT it was said "thou shalt not commit adultery". You could look on her, lust after her... probably even play around a bit... but as long as there was no actual "cheating" then the law was satisfied.

In the new and better covenant these laws are no longer in stone but written on my heart and now when adultery even begins in my heart I find conviction.

Before there was a command to give a certain percent.

Under the new and better covenant I am free to follow my heart and be led of the Holy Ghost and give as I purpose in my heart to do so.

I was just making the statement that those who love to hold onto that law also love to shuck other portions of it.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Oh I agree completely. I am not one of who feels the tithe is a command in the NT.... Like all of the law... we have a new and better covenant.

In the OT it was said "thou shalt not commit adultery". You could look on her, lust after her... probably even play around a bit... but as long as there was no actual "cheating" then the law was satisfied.

In the new and better covenant these laws are no longer in stone but written on my heart and now when adultery even begins in my heart I find conviction.

Before there was a command to give a certain percent.

Under the new and better covenant I am free to follow my heart and be led of the Holy Ghost and give as I purpose in my heart to do so.

I was just making the statement that those who love to hold onto that law also love to shuck other portions of it.

A big Amen

I'm sure you know all this scripture,I just post it for who ever.

Colo.2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Titus3:[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Rom.13:7: Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.( Jesus was the end of the law because in him we fulfill the law.)9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.11: And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed



Gal.5: 1: Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.(old Law,covenant) 2: Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3: For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. (old Law)
4: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the (old law)law; ye are fallen from grace. 5: For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7: Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8: This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you

Acts13:38: Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.(old Law)


Gal.3:23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law,(old Law) shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24: Wherefore the law (old Law)was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.(new Law) 25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.(old law)

Heb.8:6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant,(new Law) which was established upon better promises. 7: For if that first covenant(old law) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant (new law) with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

10: For this is the covenant (new law) that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

Rom.3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law (old Law)saith, it saith to them who are under the lawold law) that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20: Therefore by the deeds of the law (old law) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the (old)law is the knowledge of sin

31: Do we then make void the (old) law through faith(of the new law)? God forbid: yea, we establish the (old)law.


6:14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the (Old) law, but under grace.(new law) 15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the(old) law, but under grace(new law)? God forbid. 16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield

10:1: Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.2: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4: For Christ is the end of the (old) law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them

Math.5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the (old) law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.(we fulfill by having the new law of faith)

Gal.2:14: But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the (old) law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the (old) law: for by the works of the(old) law shall no flesh be justified

Heb.7:11: If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Joelel

How would universal health care be oxymoron ?

Universal health care and common sense is an oxymoron

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Universal health care and common sense is an oxymoron

I am too lazy to look but someone (maybe you) said something about Universal Health Care having the efficiency of the Pentagon combined with the soul(lessness) of the post office.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Truly we live in a great country for helping the poor,other nations are a bit better...

Are you saying that other nations are a bit better at helping the poor? If so, what nation???