IT is the Holy Ghost!

[SDG]

We want to say the bible says its so ... but is it the bible or the translator that uses the word it????

Just examining this topic from the translation given to us by the KJV translators is like an art connoisseur trying to analyze the hues and strokes of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa from a black and white print.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

We want to say the bible says its so ... but is it the bible or the translator that uses the word it????

Just examining this topic from the translation of the KJV translators is like an art connoisseur trying to analyze the hues and strokes of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa from a black and white print.

It makes no difference, Daniel. The point is understood and unless we want to gravitate to God in three persons, blessed Trinity, it's seems a moot argument, IMHO!

I'm more interested in His Spirit descending - "like as a dove". Beautiful!

[SDG]

The Jewish believer in OT times would not even dare to pronounce of write the name of God ... it would astonish me ... that the would then turn around and refer to the Spirit of God as an it as we use it today. And apparently after close examination ... of the original texts it is not used ....

The Jewish believer has always referred to God as He.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The Jewish believer in OT times would not even dare to pronounce of write the name of God ... it would astonish me ... that the would then turn around and refer to the Spirit of God as an it as we use it today. And apparently after close examination ... of the original texts it is not used ....

How would you have all the passages phrased?

Could you post a few?

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Again, you are speaking of Jesus in His human state. The topic was about the Spirit of God and does it have gender. Jesus is also God, but you keep referring to His humanity.

God wasn't circumcized. He doesn't have genitalia to require such an action.

And I know you aren't being vulgar. I can speak about these issues without feeling uncomfortable. It's the nurse in me.

Clinically speaking... LOL

Gotta luv ya, girl.

It becomes clear, like so many other Apostolic people, you are trying to divide God up, trying to recognize God as to what is Spirit and what is man. But, there is no man at all...impossible to be a man without spirit. It is impossible for it to be divided as to recognize a division or distinction between the God and the Man...except for the duration of his "kenosis" or humiliation during the time on earth, in His pre-glorified state. Since then, there are no distinction unless we want to be 2/3rds Trinitarian.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

How would you have all the passages phrased?

Could you post a few?

My translation is irrelevant ....

Let's look at the NIV and NAS ... who apparently did not use the creative license of the KJV translators ... these are the verses included in Eliseus' exegesis

NIV

Isaiah 3:16
16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

NAS

6Seek from the (A)book of the LORD, and read:
Not one of these will be missing;
None will lack its mate
For (B)His mouth has commanded,
And His Spirit has gathered them.

NO IT!!!
----------------------------
JOHN 1:32

NIV

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.


NAS
32John (A)testified saying, "(B)I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

NO IT!!!

------------------------------------------------

1 PETER 1:11

NIV
11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

NAS

1seeking to know what person or time (A)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (B)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

NO IT!!!!

-------------------------------------------

In First John we find the word it ... but it is not modifying the word Spirit ... but the word is ... the verb to be.

NIV

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


We could use any word there for Spirit and it has nothing to do w/ noun Spirit...

I.E. ... IT IS THE LORD THAT BEARETH WITNESS ...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

My translation is irrelevant ....

Let's look at the NIV and NAS ... who apparently did not use the creative license of the KJV translators ... these are the verses included in Eliseus' exegesis

NIV

Isaiah 3:16
16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

NAS

6Seek from the (A)book of the LORD, and read:
Not one of these will be missing;
None will lack its mate
For (B)His mouth has commanded,
And His Spirit has gathered them.

NO IT!!!
----------------------------
JOHN 1:32

NIV

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.


NAS
32John (A)testified saying, "(B)I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

NO IT!!!

------------------------------------------------

1 PETER 1:11

NIV
11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

NAS

1seeking to know what person or time (A)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (B)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

NO IT!!!!

-------------------------------------------

In First John we find the word it ... but it is not modifying the word Spirit ... but the word is ... the verb to be.

NIV

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


We could use any word there for Spirit and it has nothing to do w/ noun Spirit...

I.E. ... IT IS THE LORD THAT BEARETH WITNESS ...

Daniel,
I never said anything you put out was "irrelevant". I said the thought of "it" being confusing when it isn't is irrelevant, IMHO!

The KJV, IMHO, is saying the same thing as what you just quoted above. At least, that is how I have always read it. So, in researching and putting them side by side, and being that all translations confirm the same message, it's a moot point.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Daniel,
I never said anything you put out was "irrelevant". I said the thought of "it" being confusing when it isn't is irrelevant, IMHO!

The KJV, IMHO, is saying the same thing as what you just quoted above. At least, that is how I have always read it. So, in researching and putting them side by side, and being that all translations confirm the same message, it's a moot point.

In examining the main idea ... or big picture the message is the similar... but the argument here is not the overall message but if it's okay or acceptable to use the Word "it" in referring to the Spirit of God ... a weak argument, IMHO, has been put forth that because a poor translation in these instances refers to the Spirit as it ... then somehow it vindicates our modern usage of it in our circles. The writer of the scriptures apparently did not use it .... as connoted in the English language ...

The details ... tell a different story

[SDG]

To quote my hero, Rush Limbaugh, WORDS MEAN THINGS.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In examining the main idea ... or big picture the message is the similar...

This is as far as I got.