Chris Reed

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So many things to consider.

2 Timothy 1:6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

There is also a degree of faith required. Gifts are simply spoken against in so many congregations, that if one had one they would not use it! The variables are endless.

I'm glad you brought this up. Paul said there was a specific moment in time when Timothy was endowed with a charisma of God as Paul laid hands on him. It wasn't the gift of the Holy Spirit Paul refers to here, but a gift of that Holy Spirit.

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/1-6.htm

Might not this be a precedent to follow and obey? That is, to not expect anyone in the church to randomly have a charisma of the Spirit given out to them unless and except there is a specific moment in time that the recipient can look back at and acknowledge, perhaps when they were christened and commissioned for ministry by the elders, or etc. (E.g. 1 Timothy 4:14, noting "gift" there is likewise a charisma of the Spirit; See https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/1-6.htm)?

And that, unless and until that specific moment in time occurs, and it becomes clear to both the recipient and the elders of the church, to not allow just anyone to go off trying to operate and administer any form of the various NT gifts?

I mean, you can't rekindle the flame of something that wasn't there, to begin with.

And you certainly see in the Gospels that until Christ gave His apostles authority to heal all manner of diseases and to cast out devils and preach the Kingdom of God, they literally had no right to even try.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Apparently you know more about what JW's believe than I do.



And here you regularly accuse Esaias and others of being tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists? Apparently you don't mind dipping your toes into the same waters when it suits you.

I asked a simple question.

No, tin-foil hat here. Because you are on record saying:

So, even though she has confessed to being Oneness, knowing I am not Oneness, knowing I believe the Oneness position to be flawed,

The worst part is that you asked this female poster to think and pray about her oneness position!

Please understand, I am not challenging you, or saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to open up a horizon of new possibilities, to give you something to ponder and even pray about, if you should like to do so.

An Admin on an Apostolic forum, asking a Oneness person to open up a horizon of new possibilities that they could be wrong.

Astonishing!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Referring to something the Gospels declare doesn't mean anything. You have to correctly interpret what the Gospels declare and fit it within the greater framework of the entire canon of the Bible and the mission of Christ. You can't just say Jesus "healed them all" and presume to walk away with a mic drop like you owned your opponent.

And worse than that, you really shouldn't use a verse of the Bible you clearly misunderstand as a justification for making up the claptrap you posted about cancer and deafness causing people with cancer and deafness to be anti-Kingdom or imply Jesus isn't involved with them because if He was, they wouldn't have cancer or deafness.

You reap what you sow, Sister, and will be judged by every vain thing you say.

I never said or implied what you have in bold.

Jesus was light and darkness has to flee. Very simple. That should be our focus and not all the doubtful negativity, which gets us nowhere and gives us nothing.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Ehud might be satisfied with this, but I am not. Note the emboldened text above. You have been healed "many times". How about 100% of the time? Has everyone you've ever prayed for been healed? Note, too, that you didn't actually answer his opening question.

I am glad you brought that up. One thing we haven’t discussed is “timing”.

I believe that we say and do things because we believe more than we say and do things because we are directed by the Holy Ghost.

In the Book of Acts, it appears they did more by the direction of the Holy Ghost, than they did just because they had faith.

So, yes, every person I have prayed for has received healing. Why? Because I don’t lay hands on or pray for a person unless God tells me to.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...

In the Kingdom of God, there is no cancer, no deafness, etc. when you bring Jesus into a situation, anything anti-Kingdom has to leave.

...

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I refer to the point that the Gospels say, except for those with unbelief, He "healed them all."

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I believe that today, we don't expect everyone to be healed. The Catholic Church is very big on suffering for Christ's sake.

...

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I never said or implied what you have in bold.

Jesus was light and darkness has to flee.

...

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...

So, yes, every person I have prayed for has received healing. Why? Because I don’t lay hands on or pray for a person unless God tells me to.

By stating that you don't lay hands on or pray for a person unless God tells you to, aren't you admitting that either healing isn't for everyone or that the sick are in false doctrine and unbelief?

[Michael The Disciple]

So getting back to the topic of the thread:

Originally Posted by Esaias View Post


One the one hand, we have the idea that the gifts are lacking because people are not measuring up to high standards. Then on the other hand we have the idea that the gifts are disconnected from and not dependent on any such moral, ethical, or doctrinal standards.

Which seems to me to be a bit of a paradox. If gifts are not dependent on orthodoxy or morality or spirituality (!), then there ought to be no lack at all of charismata in today's church world....

So for Chris Reed or anyone else to be counted as A PROPHET......how much truth must they believe in and teach? Another way of putting it would be how much doctrinal error can they have and be a real PROPHET?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ehud

By stating that you don't lay hands on or pray for a person unless God tells you to, aren't you admitting that either healing isn't for everyone or that the sick are in false doctrine and unbelief?

No, I am simply sharing my personal experience. There are others being ministered to besides me in the room. Everyone wasn’t being healed by Paul alone.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So getting back to the topic of the thread:


So for Chris Reed or anyone else to be counted as A PROPHET......how much truth must they believe in and teach? Another way of putting it would be how much doctrinal error can they have and be a real PROPHET?

What do the Scriptures say on the subject?

[mfblume]

Adam Clarke noted 1 Cor 12:1 may be referring to spiritual people, but he noted the context seems to favour the gifts in that verse.

But we do know that Chater 7:1 indicated that they had sent a letter to him about various issues, and 12:1 makes reference to another item on their list in that letter. It may simply mean SPIRITUAL THINGS, rather than people.

Will check this out some more. But Jesus said those who believe would have the supernatural manifestations follow them. Not just leaders.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Hence the charismatic movement, where everyone is your personal prophet and shepherd and covering and everyone has a word for you!

...And that movement is seriously a problem. There is the teaching that everyone should literally prophesy. And that is not what was stated in 1 Cor 14.