House Rep Scalise Shot

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh, that's right. Most science articles on this that I have read have specified that Flat-Earthers and Climate Deniers are a majority in the scientific community.

Flat-Earthers? Climate deniers? Here I was being civil, and you had to go be obnoxious. I think I'm going to do like aegsm, and put you on ignore. You're not worth my time.

I pray that someday you'll realize, loving people isn't about being a socialist, it's about what you can do personally. Making someone else pay for your "good intentions", doesn't show love for anyone but government.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'll be sure to share your opinion with our family.

Hope you do. Maybe they will insist you stop playing imagination.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think your conservatism is so theoretical and idealistic that you adore it on paper.

Well, that's good. You think, you don't know, you just think. Aquila you want to be a SJW, righting the wrongs, defending the minorities (just as long as you don't live in their neighborhoods) and making yourself feel special.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But when confronted with REAL people and REAL circumstances wherein people might become REALLY harmed by your STUPID policies you get your pretty pink panties up in a bunch and resort to personal insults.

Pretty pink panties? I thought that was your deal, didn't you mention something about your attire when you go to sleep?

Bro, all you have is stories, stupid policies? You mean telling people they can receive the Holy Ghost? That they can be free of self aggrandizing bread eater as yourself? Who claim they want to set all men free by suggesting their pockets be picked on the daily?

Originally Posted by Aquila

You can't grasp that perhaps your politics HARM people and many of us are concerned about it.

Most of these social systems which you communists want us to support were taken care of by the church. It is still possible, and churches across America still work in that fashion. But you are on a steady diet of bread, and NPR, and therefore believe that Government should make us all wards of the state. Hey, listen no one wants to become Venezuela. They can' even find toilet paper. Yet, that is how you communists view the world, take from those who have to give to those who won't take care of themselves. The system is broken, and you and your heros have bad ideas to fix it. I just don't want to be a part of your stupid methodology.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'd rather us be silent about our dead parents, rape victims, PTSD, the handicapped, because as long as we are...

No, I rather you be a honorable man, someone with the guts not to use those things as a crying towel. You wave them around like a red badge of courage. When everyone else who is trying to make ends meet is getting by without all the drama. Brothers and Sisters who are killing themselves with the same issues but not looking, or would refuse to take a hand out from the government.

Originally Posted by Aquila

you can just parade around with your politics in reverse and tell yourself that what you stand for isn't hurting a soul.

Bro, you make out like everyone is on the dole. Listen kid, there are scores of Americans who get up and work their tails off. Never once been on any kind of assistance. People who lived their entire life without going to a doctor, or a hospital. So, what do you want them to do? You want communism? Go find a communistic counrty and live there. You want socialism, go to Germany.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You have an ideology... you're not determined to make life better for anyone.

I'm not looking to have a government give me more bread and circuses You might like the free bread, but I'm a meat eater, and I break big rocks into little rocks in the Florida sun. Not looking for free government cheese and neither are those around me.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Sadly, you've had your ideology fed to you by churches and right wing sources. You cling to your political conservatism like it is your religion. No amount of human suffering around you gets your attention. While others learn and evolve based on their experiences, you're just clinging to a political dogma that wants to take us all back to the 1950's.

Oh, you mean the 1950s where homsexuals were still in the closet, where people worked hard to get er done, where a man was known by his honor, and taking care of his family. Where a man supported his wife and children through the sweat of his brow?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. I wanted her to be seen in living color. She's real EB. And so is her brother. And their mother is terrified of the impact Trumpcare might have on her family. And I've also mentioned Mary, my mother-in-law who is almost 80. She's also afraid of the impact it will have on her. She's very real too. I've attached a picture of HER here for your judgments and condemnations.

No, you parade those people, instead of giving us the solutions. You don't know how to fix it, just keep telling us that we all have to keep people supported by the government. Stop posting pictures of people YOU know, and want to abuse for your own argument.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I assure you that I've never been abducted by aliens.

Hard to believe, but I will see in the next sentence that in someway or somehow you have a story concerning the subject.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But ironically, I do have a story involving aliens and yes, my ex-wife. I might have mentioned that David (my ex-wife's uncle on her mother's side) was an Episcopal Priest and dean of the Anglican Academy in Columbus and how his late wife Terry was President of the Women's League of Voters of Ohio. Well, his brother, Jim, is a retired Air Force Captain. He was part of the research and development team that worked on stealth technology. Along with that comes Top Secret clearance. While at a Christmas get together in Columbus I once asked Jim about Roswell, Area 51, and Hanger 13, and X-File kinda stuff. I asked, "So Jim, do we have an alien spaceship? C'mon, what's the deal?" Without missing a beat, and with as serious a look as I've ever seen him have, he said, "We don't know what it is." I then said, "So, is it alien?" He said again, "We don't know what it is.", and with that, he dropped the topic and wouldn't elaborate.

I'm thinking it is probably the unidentifiable wreckage from some Russian spacecraft that fell back to Earth in our airspace.

There, that's my only "alien" story.

That guy told you that story because he knew you were the type to fly it up the flag pole. It was a total fabrication and he knew it. He just knew a superhero like yourself loves to relay false information without any evidence to back it up.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not the hero in every one of my experiences. In fact, I've shared with you experiences wherein I was anything but the hero, someone I didn't even want to confess to having been. So, I disagree that I'm always the hero.

No, that's not what I said Bluto, I said that you are the hero and victim. Got it? You understand now? OK, let me give you the 1950s interpretation, you sir are a baloney thrower, you are the type who keeps talking whether or not people are nodding off at what you are telling them. yes, you are the hero and victim of everyone of your stories.

Originally Posted by Aquila

The attached photo is of Mary (she's on Medicare and Medicaid, and some other program that I can't remember at the moment). With her is Addison, my step-daughter. We like to visit Mary and help her around the house and do things that are entertaining and crafty to keep her skills sharp. She's really a beautiful person. The other photo is of me and my father from last summer. He passed away this past December, we buried him in the local VA Cemetery with honors. He was a Vietnam vet.

Seriously, everytime I read your quotes where you mention people who you claim are effected by the Republicans, conservatives, or Donald Trump. It sounds like Audie Cornish, or Tom Ashbrook from NPR. Also, bro, do you even lift?

[Aquila]

Evang.Benincasa,

You will not be strong and healthy forever. There will come a day when you are in desperate need. And like most of us, you'll discover that the church is only in the game for profit like everyone else. They'll help, but only with groceries and maybe a group to mow your lawn every week or two. When the medical bills start pouring in, you'll discover that the church can't help you as much as you have always thought it would. You'll realize that it is indeed going to preserve itself financially before it will go broke helping anyone. And that's not a bad thing really. The church should be there for immediate and temporary relief. But like all people, you'll wake up one morning and by the end of the day, you'll be on a long and painful road of desperation and facing a situation far bigger than any church can help provide for. It happens to everyone without exception. You'll manage and push on for as long as you can, but there will come that moment when you're out of resources and you'll be in desperate need.

And... you'll apply for aid.

I've seen it time and time again. Men become disabled on the job and file for disability and government programs to help save them from losing everything they've worked for. I've seen men become seriously ill and after years of preaching against government programs while cursing liberals, and they break down and file for the very programs and entitlements they once cursed. They sit at a desk with a liberal case-worker, filling out all those forms to get that help. I personally don't know a single man (or woman) who hasn't finally realized that they aren't the invincible super-conservative they once thought they were when sickness, infirmity, or age comes knocking. When the pain is racking their bodies and they can't eat, sleep, or even walk, reality sets in. When they are struggling for each breath, when the doctor tells them, "it's cancer", or, "it's congestive heart failure", they all cave in. One by one. You will too. It isn't a matter of "if", but it is a matter of "when", the only unknown is what circumstance you'll face that brings you to that place.

Time is a beautiful thing. It humbles us into the realization that we are not an island and that yes we are our brother's keeper, especially when the day comes that we need a brother to keep us. You're no different. You'll one day be filing for all the government help you can get, because the private system will bleed you dry until you are broke. It's designed to do so by those who write the rules and profit off of our calamity. And when that day comes, and it will, I pray that there is still enough progressive influence left in our society to ensure that you receive the care and assistance you'll need.

So have at it oh healthy, strong, and valiant warrior. Beat your chest, moralize, and posture. Mock and degrade. But let every morning remind you, as you look into the mirror and see a new line, a new grey hair, a new spot you haven't seen before... let it remind you that the day that you'll need exactly what I'm advocating for will come. And you'll be there, filling out some form, hoping to get an entitlement, a coverage, or a benefit you've cursed for so many years. When you're signing that paper, I doubt you'll think of me, but if you do, maybe you'll understand what my position was truly always about.

Hopefully that day will not find you for many many years. But I assure you that should Christ tarry... it will find you. There's no escape.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Flat-Earthers? Climate deniers? Here I was being civil, and you had to go be obnoxious. I think I'm going to do like aegsm, and put you on ignore. You're not worth my time.

I pray that someday you'll realize, loving people isn't about being a socialist, it's about what you can do personally. Making someone else pay for your "good intentions", doesn't show love for anyone but government.

Um... if everyone pays into a Single Payer system for their coverage... everyone is contributing to the cost of their own healthcare. Single Payer IS everyone having to pay towards their care. That's the real reason why people really don't like it.

Right now, if you have purchased a plan privately, you're premiums are so high because the uninsured drive up the cost of care. You're paying for the uninsured (in addition to processing costs and overhead). And your plan helps pay for your care... because so many others are paying into that company for coverage, the company has the money to cover you. And yes, you're paying into the company to help the company pay for other customers.

And if you're insured by a plan provided by your employer, depending upon the plan, they are helping to pay for the cost of your inpatient care. So, yes, someone else is helping you pay.

The ONLY system in which EVERYONE pays towards their medical needs is Single Payer.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Flat-Earthers? Climate deniers? Here I was being civil, and you had to go be obnoxious. I think I'm going to do like aegsm, and put you on ignore. You're not worth my time.

I pray that someday you'll realize, loving people isn't about being a socialist, it's about what you can do personally. Making someone else pay for your "good intentions", doesn't show love for anyone but government.

Bingo.
He is not an honest debater.
Now, I love to debate politics, maybe too much.
Primarily because when confronted by an opposing viewpoint, I usually can learn something.
A is not like that.
I had many debates with him.
He would always slide in the insults and run away when confronted with facts that he could not refute or force into his narrative.
I still believe that he could have something to contribute, but not with his present mindset.
He believes "we" (Republicans) are of the devil.
And he is waging a war of good versus evil.
When we do not war against flesh and blood, but against spirits.
"12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Evang.Benincasa,

You will not be strong and healthy forever. There will come a day when you are in desperate need. And like most of us, you'll discover that the church is only in the game for profit like everyone else. They'll help, but only with groceries and maybe a group to mow your lawn every week or two.

That's why Church is a family. I pity those who have the great misfortune believing your religious group is legit. Your house church network is only in it for the money? Wow. Will only buy groceries for long time saints who put in their hard time? Aquila, you never answered my question. Do you leave a slime trail when you walk?

Originally Posted by Aquila

When the medical bills start pouring in, you'll discover that the church can't help you as much as you have always thought it would. You'll realize that it is indeed going to preserve itself financially before it will go broke helping anyone.

Do you preach and teach? Bro, If I was attending what you claim you call a house church. If I read just this quote above. You and I would be in the front yard, I would be asking you if you been hitting the Pine Sol. Are you that much of a bread eater? Did you ever get the Holy Ghost? You would dump people who have been your brothers and sisters because you didn't have the financial means? Bro, I had a situation of a tree falling over in my backyard, and people from all over contacted me. I needed their prayers more than their assistance. When I crashed my mountain bike, and split my knee down to the bone. Laying in bed, preachers and saints from all over called, and emailed to find out what I needed. Bro, you need a healing, a deep mind blowing experience in the Holy Ghost. Because you no longer know what we are about. Love God, love your fellowman, is pure unadulterated legalism to you. Brother you say that stuff out of one side of your mouth then post the anti-christian rhetoric above? House church network? My foot.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And that's not a bad thing really. The church should be there for immediate and temporary relief. But like all people, you'll wake up one morning and by the end of the day, you'll be on a long and painful road of desperation and facing a situation far bigger than any church can help provide for. It happens to everyone without exception. You'll manage and push on for as long as you can, but there will come that moment when you're out of resources and you'll be in desperate need.

Here you go folks, the real Aquila. This is hat he really believes Christian comfort to be. Bro, do you even have real friends, I mean even secular. Do you know that I have friends who know how I feel about their salvation. Know what I think about their religions. Even ones who are secular, and atheists. But you know something, they would get on a plane tonight to come to my home to help me cut down a stupid tree in the back yard. Carry limbs to the garbage pile. Because they are friends, close friends, who are honorable, but most of all (and make sure you read this slowly) they are men.

Aquila, your view of the Church is sadder than anything you ever posted anywhere. Yeah, you constantly live on a diet of foot around here. telling us how house wives are losers, who have no lives at home. You work to make lots of money so your wife and kids don't live in our ghettos. But this, this is what you are all about. Church to you is legalism, why do you even waste your time going. What do they let you preach, teach, pontificate for 20 minutes? Church to you is a pickup with a blown motor. Looks only, won't move furniture, or a load of 2x4s, but it has nice paint. Get help.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And... you'll apply for aid.

I've seen it time and time again. Men become disabled on the job and file for disability and government programs to help save them from losing everything they've worked for. I've seen men become seriously ill and after years of preaching against government programs while cursing liberals, and they break down and file for the very programs and entitlements they once cursed. They sit at a desk with a liberal case-worker, filling out all those forms to get that help. I personally don't know a single man (or woman) who hasn't finally realized that they aren't the invincible super-conservative they once thought they were when sickness, infirmity, or age comes knocking.

Originally Posted by Aquila

When the pain is racking their bodies and they can't eat, sleep, or even walk, reality sets in. When they are struggling for each breath, when the doctor tells them, "it's cancer", or, "it's congestive heart failure", they all cave in. One by one. You will too. It isn't a matter of "if", but it is a matter of "when", the only unknown is what circumstance you'll face that brings you to that place.

That all happened to my parents. Yet, they weren't on public assistance.

Aquila, they way you talk you would think no one in this country ever survived not having health care. Like I have told you before you not only listen to NPR. You believe it

Originally Posted by Aquila

Time is a beautiful thing.

Hmm, where did I hear that before? Oh, I said it to you. But my usage of it means something way more foreboding.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It humbles us

For you? Sadly, not a chance.

Originally Posted by Aquila

into the realization that we are not an island and that yes we are our brother's keeper, especially when the day comes that we need a brother to keep us. You're no different. You'll one day be filing for all the government help you can get, because the private system will bleed you dry until you are broke. It's designed to do so by those who write the rules and profit off of our calamity. And when that day comes, and it will, I pray that there is still enough progressive influence left in our society to ensure that you receive the care and assistance you'll need.

So have at it oh healthy, strong, and valiant warrior. Beat your chest, moralize, and posture. Mock and degrade. But let every morning remind you, as you look into the mirror and see a new line, a new grey hair, a new spot you haven't seen before... let it remind you that the day that you'll need exactly what I'm advocating for will come. And you'll be there, filling out some form, hoping to get an entitlement, a coverage, or a benefit you've cursed for so many years. When you're signing that paper, I doubt you'll think of me, but if you do, maybe you'll understand what my position was truly always about.

Well, we see how you are preparing your future. You should, be making these plans. Because as far as church goes. It is all a bunch of falsehoods, covered with fake friends. Mary is happy when you visit? Good God from Zion. All she is to you is a tool to be paraded in front of a faceless forum.
You have no shame, bread eater.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hopefully that day will not find you for many many years.

More legalistic posturing, how disgusting. I'd rather have Emma Bontrager skin me alive in her blue bonnet. Then have to listen to some phoney Christianism spewed forth. You don't hope anything good for me or mine. You would rather that lighting came down and split me in two. So, you can use me as your next photo victim, your next heroic story of how you knew an evangelist who you warned that Bernie Sanders was my only hope of slavation. But alas, I didn't heed your godly consul so the ground opened up and proved you right. Because after all bread eater, it is all about you being right.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But I assure you that should Christ tarry... it will find you. There's no escape.

Aquila, If I had a dollar for every jackleg who pronounced a curse on my head, and the heads of my family. I would have more money than Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. Your words hold no grit, and you are noting more than a brown paper bag hero. Who just wants everything opposite of the religion he once was a part.

Get help boy, you need it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Flat-Earthers? Climate deniers? Here I was being civil, and you had to go be obnoxious. I think I'm going to do like aegsm, and put you on ignore. You're not worth my time.

I was just being a little sarcastic. I didn't mean it personally.

I pray that someday you'll realize, loving people isn't about being a socialist, it's about what you can do personally. Making someone else pay for your "good intentions", doesn't show love for anyone but government.

You're right, loving people isn't about being a socialist. And yes, you're also right in that a very big part of "loving people" is about what we can do for them personally. However, I do not believe in a private personal sense of justice that differs from the public sense of justice. Here's an article that best articulates my perspective:

Holman Bible Dictionary

Justice

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12 ; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17 ; Psalm 146:7-9 ; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2 ; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28 ; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9 ; compare Micah 2:2 ; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4 ; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18 ; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6 ; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23 ; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9 ; Isaiah 45:8 ; Isaiah 58:11 ; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10 ; Psalm 10:15-16 ; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10 ; compare Luke 1:51-53 ; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4 ; Genesis 18:25 ; Deuteronomy 32:4 ; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9 ; Psalm 103:6 ; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26 ; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1 ; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4 ; Ezekiel 34:4 ; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27 ; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24 ; Micah 6:6-8 ; Isaiah 1:11-17 ; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government ; Poverty ; Righteousness ; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott
http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...hilite=JUSTICE

In my understanding, while my position has some similarities with what you call "socialism", I see it as the biblical cause of social justice. The poor, the struggling, the working, the needy, the handicapped, the sick, the widows, the orphans, the elderly, the stranger... God desires all of these to be recipients of social justice and compassion. This is MORE than just a personal obligation... it is an obligation of the entire society from the White House to the dog house. This is how a culture survives. This is how a culture keeps from being fragmented. It also how a culture prevents oppression and exploitation.

One of the most interesting concepts is the Year of Jubilee. Slaves (indentured servants) are set free, debts are forgiven, and lands are returned to those who lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts. While this is truly a merciful vision, economically it is breath taking. The economic function of this Year of Jubilee would be to redistribute the nation's wealth every generation, preventing the entire nation's land and wealth from becoming aggregated under the ownership of just a few wealthy and powerful oligarchs. In American today the vast majority of the entire nation's wealth is being hoarded up at the top in the top 1%-2% of our population. Attached is a picture to demonstrate what I'm talking about. So why are so many struggling? Because the entire nation's wealth, everything we've worked for as a nation, is being hoarded and guarded by just a few ultra-wealthy individuals. This is dangerous for a nation. It leads to oppression, and it is an injustice. It is when trickle-down economics doesn't work. Thus, justice is simply the righteous arising and turning on the spigot.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's why Church is a family. I pity those who have the great misfortune believing your religious group is legit. Your house church network is only in it for the money? Wow. Will only buy groceries for long time saints who put in their hard time? Aquila, you never answered my question. Do you leave a slime trail when you walk?

I spoke to a woman on a forum the other day whose husband has cancer. Their medical bills exceeded $1 million dollars. Her church helped with groceries, some of their utility bills, and even helped her get her car repaired. But she had to legally fight the insurance company for coverage. The legal battle cost them their home and even though she won, they're at the edge of bankruptcy. Her church was a family for her. But the church isn't the only ones in our society called to be of service to the struggling. It is the duty of every single one of us, even the pagans within our boarders.

Do you preach and teach? Bro,

No. I preached for several years. I stepped down from preaching or teaching about 9 years ago after being blacklisted over questions regarding some financial mismanagement in the church. I discovered that our church was giving over $71,000 a year to a "missionary" in Ethiopia. When I did a little investigating, I discovered that this missionary didn't exist. When I asked about it, things got really weird and for a short time, I felt fear. Fear that my family would be harmed. I have no interest in ministry. To me, it would be like becoming a used car salesman. I prefer to simply sit in a pew or a love seat and contribute to the conversation. It's not for me.

If I was attending what you claim you call a house church. If I read just this quote above. You and I would be in the front yard, I would be asking you if you been hitting the Pine Sol. Are you that much of a bread eater? Did you ever get the Holy Ghost? You would dump people who have been your brothers and sisters because you didn't have the financial means? Bro, I had a situation of a tree falling over in my backyard, and people from all over contacted me.

You do realize that you're comparing a tree falling in your backyard to a family who has lost a bread winner to sickness that has tens of thousands of dollars of compounding medical bills, don't you? Let me know if you ever racked up a $120,000 dollar medical bill, and your pastor drove by with a check in hand to help you pay for it. I'm not saying it can't happen. I've seen it. But out of a church of roughly 2,000 people, maybe one or two can testify to such help. And I assure you, they have connections to some wealthy and powerful people who care about them. The vast majority of the congregation will never see that degree of help. And this is why I believe that a part of the church's role is to teach the entire nation, our entire society, that we are our brother's keeper... and implement social justice and compassion as a people.

I needed their prayers more than their assistance. When I crashed my mountain bike, and split my knee down to the bone. Laying in bed, preachers and saints from all over called, and emailed to find out what I needed.

How much was your medical bill? Did you have insurance that covered your medical expenses? It's nice that you were called and emailed. If you weren't insured, did they help pay your medical bill?

Bro, you need a healing, a deep mind blowing experience in the Holy Ghost. Because you no longer know what we are about. Love God, love your fellowman, is pure unadulterated legalism to you. Brother you say that stuff out of one side of your mouth then post the anti-christian rhetoric above? House church network? My foot.

Perhaps I do. Please pray for me.

Or, perhaps I have had a deep experience in the Holy Ghost and I'm grieved at the Social Darwinism that has been embraced by our churches and our society at large.

Here you go folks, the real Aquila. This is hat he really believes Christian comfort to be. Bro, do you even have real friends, I mean even secular. Do you know that I have friends who know how I feel about their salvation. Know what I think about their religions. Even ones who are secular, and atheists. But you know something, they would get on a plane tonight to come to my home to help me cut down a stupid tree in the back yard. Carry limbs to the garbage pile. Because they are friends, close friends, who are honorable, but most of all (and make sure you read this slowly) they are men.

I have many secular friends. Most of my church family from the churches I've attended keep in touch, but my closest friends are in our house church.

When my mother died, she didn't have life insurance either. To pay for the funeral I emptied my savings and still there was almost $2,000 dollars left to pay. My grandmother emptied her bank account and my uncle paid for the remainder. It wiped us out financially. My church? They didn't offer anything but two hours for a funeral service in the sanctuary. That was it. My family was so disgusted with the church, it was embarrassing. But, a brother named Bobby had his house burn down. Guess what? The pastor had the church help to pay for an entire wardrobe for both him and his wife, a financial contribution, and a hotel room. And guess what... Bobby had insurance! LOL I was floored. My family was financially wiped out by my mother's death and no one cared enough to contribute a dime. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy when others are helped. It just stung a little considering the hardship me and my family faced. And it hurt really bad spiritually. I had been witnessing to my family and praying for them to be saved. When the church didn't even volunteer any help, my family's fate was sealed. I knew their bitterness over it would doom them. Today, they won't come near a Pentecostal church.

I struggled for several months over if I was even saved. I feared that the pastor didn't help me and my family because I was somehow, not a part of the family. All these things, the church's neglect, my hurt, my family's hurt... all of it factored into the disillusionment and distrust that followed, and my eventual divorce.

Looking back a it, I remember watching my 76 year old grandmother cry as she gave her savings, a mere $379, to help pay for her daughter's funeral. Bro, she was on a fixed income.

I remember when our church raised money for our COW (Church on Wheels). It was $50 thousand dollars. We raised over $65 thousand dollars. When the pastor wanted all of us on the minister's team (and our wives) to go to Matt Maddix's, Soul Winner's Boot Camp, I found out that the tickets were $400 a pop. For my family, that would have been $800 dollars. Brother, that was half of what I was making in an entire month. I had an idea. At the minister's meeting, when the pastor emphasized how badly he wanted all of us and our wives to go, I suggested that we pay for the minister's and their wives out of the $15 thousand dollars remaining from raising money for the COW. He stared at me with a look that gave me chills. He said, "No can do. Brother Chris, the church has bills." What got me was this was $15,000 dollars in windfall profit that wasn't in the budget. And our financial reports had us well in the black across the board. I was confused. Why couldn't the church send our ministers? It would allow ALL of us to go. It would allow ALL of us to become fired up for evangelism, and it would provide financial relief we'd all so sincerely appreciate. In the end, two ministers and their wives went. The rest of the minister's team stayed home and was disappointed. When the two came back fired up, the team moved on their ideas like molasses. After about two months, those who went seemed to lose their fire and it was back to status quo with the Youth Group knocking doors. It was depressing.

I've become jaded. I don't trust churches. I'm fine with small groups and gatherings. I don't trust incorporated institutional churches. I'm not saying there aren't any worthy of trust. It's just that I can't get myself to step out any more.

Aquila, your view of the Church is sadder than anything you ever posted anywhere. Yeah, you constantly live on a diet of foot around here. telling us how house wives are losers, who have no lives at home. You work to make lots of money so your wife and kids don't live in our ghettos. But this, this is what you are all about. Church to you is legalism, why do you even waste your time going. What do they let you preach, teach, pontificate for 20 minutes? Church to you is a pickup with a blown motor. Looks only, won't move furniture, or a load of 2x4s, but it has nice paint. Get help.

You really missed my points in those other conversations.

That all happened to my parents. Yet, they weren't on public assistance.

They never drew Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid? I find that difficult to believe. But if they didn't, I think they should have. If they paid into it, it was there for them.

Aquila, they way you talk you would think no one in this country ever survived not having health care. Like I have told you before you not only listen to NPR. You believe it

It's 2017. Having tens of thousands of Americans DIE from treatable conditions in a society that is as advanced as we are is a crime against humanity. I know, you miss the good ol' days of Little House On the Prairie. I've just come to grips with the fact that the future is now.

Well, we see how you are preparing your future. You should, be making these plans. Because as far as church goes. It is all a bunch of falsehoods, covered with fake friends. Mary is happy when you visit? Good God from Zion. All she is to you is a tool to be paraded in front of a faceless forum.
You have no shame, bread eater.

I have retirement covered. But a catastrophic illness could wreck that.

Aquila, If I had a dollar for every jackleg who pronounced a curse on my head, and the heads of my family. I would have more money than Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. Your words hold no grit, and you are noting more than a brown paper bag hero. Who just wants everything opposite of the religion he once was a part.

Get help boy, you need it.

I'm not pronouncing a curse. I'm just telling you the truth. We all get sick. Eventually those sicknesses become more frequent. And eventually one of those sicknesses becomes terminal and the expense of caring for it can easily leave one bankrupt and unable to pay their medical bills without insurance or some form of comprehensive coverage. It's not a curse. Just a fact.

[Amanah]

The problem is the red tape and Govt bureaucracy of our society. Years ago, if a neighbor's house burned down, the community could pull together and help them rebuild. There were no permits and Government regulations and costs to make rebuilding prohibitive without insurance. If people were sick, the doctor could treat them without wiping them out financially, or having to worry about overhead and insurance and being sued. Society was not fragmented and people lived in families which included several generations, your family was your retirement plan. Church families could pull together and help with meals and labor and various kinds of support.

Government bureaucracy has created the situation we are in and they will only make it worse by making us more dependent on their system.

Most of the money the Govt takes from us does not go to help people, it goes to make Govt rich.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

The problem is the red tape and Govt bureaucracy of our society. Years ago, if a neighbor's house burned down, the community could pull together and help them rebuild. There were no permits and Government regulations and costs to make rebuilding prohibitive without insurance. If people were sick, the doctor could treat them without wiping them out financially, or having to worry about overhead and insurance and being sued. Society was not fragmented and people lived in families which included several generations, your family was your retirement plan. Church families could pull together and help with meals and labor and various kinds of support.

Government bureaucracy has created the situation we are in and they will only make it worse by making us more dependent on their system.

Most of the money the Govt takes from us does not go to help people, it goes to make Govt rich.

I don't see the Government being the problem in everything. For example, private attorney's desiring to get rich off of major lawsuits often force an issue wherein some regulation becomes necessary for the sake of insulating from lawsuits. Private interests with vested financial interests will push for specific zoning and permits to be required in order to maintain their investment or interest. Most people don't realize this, but CORPORATIONS are becoming monsters in that they continue to push for various laws that favor their interests and stifle competition. Corporations have pushed for laws that grant eminent domain, which essentially allows corporations to seize private land. Time and time again wealthy private interests push government to do their dirty work, and in the end... everyone blames the government. Trust me, some government official didn't sit up all night thinking what law can I make to make things difficult for the average guy. No, some corporation contacted him and basically offered a heavy contribution, or a significant endorsement (which are necessary politically speaking)... but in return the corporation wants laws that benefit it and stifle competition.

Consider this.

When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation, our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these:

◾Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.
◾Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
◾Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.
◾Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.
◾Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.
◾Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

For 100 years after the American Revolution, legislators maintained tight control of the corporate chartering process. Because of widespread public opposition, early legislators granted very few corporate charters, and only after debate. Citizens governed corporations by detailing operating conditions not just in charters but also in state constitutions and state laws. Incorporated businesses were prohibited from taking any action that legislators did not specifically allow.

Many don't realize, it all went out the window when corporations gained what is known as "corporate personhood". This means that legally speaking, corporations are considered people and are entitled to all the rights and protections of a person. Then add on to that fact, they often have relatively bottomless pockets. So, in the end... the average corporation in America has more rights and protections under the law than you or me.

If we started to enforce laws or pass laws that restricted corporations like our Founders restricted them, you'd have outcry from the far right screaming, "Socialism! Regulation! Tyranny!" But it would all be a lie. It's, "We the people...", and the government of, by, and for the people acting in the best interest of the people.

So, basically, don't blame the government. Blame corporations and powerful interests that manipulate the government to do their bidding. Any time there is some flaky regulation, law, standard, or red tape that just doesn't make sense...most likely some private or corporate interest is behind having created such a thing.

If we abolished corporate personhood, we just might be able to save our republic.

Here are a few interesting cartoons about "bureaucracy" and the smoke and mirrors of private industry...