Marriage Rejuvenation?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Evang.Benincasa,

You've continually stalked me, harassed me, insulted me, slandered me, mocked me, and misrepresented me.

Don't play nieve, no one stalks you. Like I had mentioned in another thread. The thread where you said everyone who flies the flag of Dixie should be hung for treason. Listen, no one is stalking you or are obsessed with you. You make yourself the lighting rod. You come to a Christain forum, Apostolic and you love to go over the top. So, save the fasle shock of someone taking the time to disrupt your time of wanting to hold court.

Originally Posted by Aquila

What do you want? Just say it.

I have said it over and over again. Take your own advise poser.

Do I have to repeat those three things which you originally said you were going to take time and do.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's end this foolishness and tell me what it will take for you to calm down and actually talk with me rationally?

I am talking rationally. Do you believe that the tares have sweet fellowship with the wheat? Certainly not. Chris, you need to get yourself straightened out. You live in Ohio? Don't you live in Ohio? There isn't common law marriages in Ohio. You also aren't a Quaker, so the Quaker wedding was a farce. Your girlfriend has to schlep it to your sabbath keeping house church and pretend she is married to you. Do the elders in your congregation now that you and your girlfriend aren't really married?

Originally Posted by Aquila

In most forums you'd already be banned for such personal attacks and near menacing behavior.

Chris, most forums would of banned you for making the comments you did about me being burned by my stepmother as a child. So, save it. You aren't the trembling barefoot pious saint, robed in saffron leading your white bull to your ivory monastery. Even when MawMaw gave her view of you, you jumped her. Chris, your problem is that you can't take what you dish out.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I honestly don't know why the admins here haven't at least asked you to be more civil. I've requested that they do so, but nothing became of it. And that's their prerogative I guess. They can do as they wish.

Because coming from you, it must of made them throw back their heads with laughter. They might even fell to the floor and rolled around holding their stomachs. Did you complain before or after you associated my being dragged to a lit stove and being burned with child discipline? Chris, do you have moments of amnesia? Do you happen to realize that this forum has a huge amount of your postings which make mine pale in comparisons. That you have posters who officially placed you on the pay no mind list? Now, we find out that you are just living with your girlfriend playing house? Yet, you want to spend time in a thread where you instruct a female about spiritual strongholds? You must be mad. Bro, find Jesus Christ the one true living God. The fellowship is either condoning your live in relationship, or they don't even know. If they don't know, why don't they?


[QUOTE=Aquila;1498268]
Look, I'm not an evangelist. [/quoter]

For a good reason my man. I mean what in heaven's name would you tell young people? That they should live with their girlfriends? What kind of example would you set? No, no one needs a preacher who has a mile long excuse for why he is living with his girlfriend, and playing house. Not only playing house but sitting around naked eating Fruit Loops.

Originally Posted by Aquila

though I thought I was called for a time and became involved with ministry, I'm no longer interested in being a minister of any kind.

It looks like everything is make believe to you. A calling is just that, you are called by God. Not by you, it isn't something like you want to collect butterflies, or stamps. No one is called for a time. Yet, you couldn't be a minister. Unless you wanted to be in the Moses David Berg's Children of God.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm just an average Joe. And you're also right, I'm a mess. I don't profess to be perfect. In fact, I've spoken freely about many of my imperfections and less than ideal circumstances. Trust me, I could have chosen not to say a word about me or my life. I could have hidden in anonymity and pretended that all was well. But I didn't. All my contradictions, imperfections, sin, fears, concerns, failures, hurt, experiences, wounds, scars, etc... most of me is laid out in the open. In fact, I've put enough out here on this forum about me, I've sealed the coffin on any opportunity to minister ever again. In fact, you've kind of helped me in that. And for that I'm really grateful. But I'm now growing weary with your endless attacks. Why don't we just settle things like rational people? I'm right here.

Chris, strength is never a weakness. So the above needs to be considered only by you. You need to take your own advise, and heal thyself. I can literally line a city street with people who parrot the very same words. They move ever so gently, telling everyone they are full of mess, sinners to the raging core. Yet, saved by grace, as you listen to them, you could swear you hear the shuffle of angel's feet. But when the preacher tells them to get back on track and live right through the power of the cross they refuse. Because they are more focused on sin, then repentance. They aren't struggling, they are flat out refusing to get right. Bro, the wheat never massage the tares, or look to have a lovely time of chatting while you destroy yourself and others. Ever heard, real friends don't let friends dive drunk? I'm not going to stand around while you make believe, and just let you walk off the cliff with people following you.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And let me assure you, I am a joke. I'm not important. I don't have an office or position in any church. And as previously said, I'm a mess. You're the "evangelist". You're the dude in a shirt and tie with a mission. You've been called to some real important stuff. In fact, you've even appointed yourself as my own personal judge and jury. So, let's stop wasting time. What is it....?

What do you want?
What is your goal in all of this non-stop harassment?
What do you want from me?
What is it that you hope all of this will accomplish?

Please drop the insults and just talk to me. What are you needing from me to end this endless war between us?

Are you wanting to somehow get me to renounce my faith? Are you wanting me to pray through and become you find acceptable? Are you wanting me to leave the forum? Are you wanting me feel so emotionally damaged that I jump off of a bridge somewhere? Are you just testing my resolve? Are you just incapable of controlling yourself? Is personally insulting me non-stop just something you simply get enjoyment from? Are you wanting me to change political parties? Are you wanting me to be converted to Preterism?

Once you tell me, I can think things over and determine if what you're wanting is within my ability.

What do you want? What is your goal in all of this?

You have my undivided attention.

But I don't have your undivided attention. Because you're a professional at snow jobs. You must live post to post. Thinking that no one will remember your escapades? I have repeated myself to you, even when you took advantage of a testimony of my childhood, and used it for revenge. you crawfished out of responsibility with that one. As you did with your creepy comment concerning the flag of Dixie.

I'll say it for the twentieth time, you need to take your own advise Chris.

Save yourself from yourself.


Do what you said you would do

[Amanah]

Brother Aquila, There isn't anything more precious than the souls of your family. Time passes, children grow up, and all the selfish things that we do come back to confront us in the form of regrets. Forgive me for being candid in my thoughts, let me just say that I've been praying for you and to me it seems simple. Legally marry your wife, take your family to an apostolic church, be still, sit and listen and find God's direction. Give your family every chance to be saved because it really isn't about you. Turn off the news, the media, the world and seek the face of God for your family.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Brother Aquila, There isn't anything more precious than the souls of your family. Time passes, children grow up, and all the selfish things that we do come back to confront us in the form of regrets. Forgive me for being candid in my thoughts, let me just say that I've been praying for you and to me it seems simple. Legally marry your wife, take your family to an apostolic church, be still, sit and listen and find God's direction. Give your family every chance to be saved because it really isn't about you. Turn off the news, the media, the world and seek the face of God for your family.

Aquila, this is the simplicity of the whole matter.

Instead of focusing on how messed up you are, and reveling in that condition.

Take Sister Amanah's advise, and your own concerning a time of prayer, fasting, and getting soaked in the word.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don't play nieve, no one stalks you. Like I had mentioned in another thread. The thread where you said everyone who flies the flag of Dixie should be hung for treason. Listen, no one is stalking you or are obsessed with you. You make yourself the lighting rod. You come to a Christain forum, Apostolic and you love to go over the top. So, save the fasle shock of someone taking the time to disrupt your time of wanting to hold court.

You still take the hanging statement seriously? LOL

Well, I guess we know who is waving the Dixie flag around here. LOL

Do I have to repeat those three things which you originally said you were going to take time and do.

I've done this, and still you don't stop. I after much prayer the past two weeks I've already chosen to change direction in several things in my life. And yet you keep digging up old bones and throwing them at me every day. You don't know me. You have convinced yourself that you do. But in reality, you don't know "me". You're so concerned with my performance that you're not considering me as a person. Please, STOP.

I am talking rationally. Do you believe that the tares have sweet fellowship with the wheat? Certainly not. Chris, you need to get yourself straightened out. You live in Ohio? Don't you live in Ohio? There isn't common law marriages in Ohio. You also aren't a Quaker, so the Quaker wedding was a farce. Your girlfriend has to schlep it to your sabbath keeping house church and pretend she is married to you. Do the elders in your congregation now that you and your girlfriend aren't really married?

My grandmother was a member of the Church of Christ, but my step-grandfather was a Quaker. They were never formerly married either. However, their marriage qualified as a legal common law marriage. My mother was in a civil marriage with my biological father. But after he returned from Nam, the issues he struggled with and the death of brother destroyed their marriage. Mom chose to never remarry. And even though mom had become a Pentecostal when I was 12, she said that if she ever did remarry she'd consider a marriage in care of a meeting. I understand Quaker ways. I and find them to have far more spiritual depth than the "bang-clang" superficiality and legalism of modern Pentecostalism. The old timers of Pentecost fascinate and inspire me. Those who are just trying to imitate them don't. I agree with Pentecostalism in that I'm Oneness, I believe in Acts 2:38, and I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. My point is, although I'm not a Quaker, Quaker ways are not alien to me.

It's important to note, that Quakers married under common law since they were accused of "living in sin" back in England. And it is Quaker conviction that while the state may change its laws (and it is free to do so), it doesn't change God. If God blessed and united a woman in marriage without officiant or agent of the state in the 1600's, He does it today. Even if the state refuses to recognize it. George Fox stated:

"For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests' or the magistrates'; for it is God's ordinance and not man's; and therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together: for we marry none; it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses" ~ George Fox, 1669

As for my house church, our statement of faith reads under Rights and Privileges, D through G:

D. An Elder does not need to be licensed in order to lead his own family, nor does he need to be licensed if his work expands beyond his own household.

E. This fellowship reserves the right to function as a religious network of Christian believers without government intervention and regulation. Since we receive our authority from God and not from man, we will not seek to be recognized by any body of civil government as an officially incorporated institution. Elders are not to be licensed by any state or government body.

F. Elders serving in Christian ministry within this fellowship are to disengage civil marriage from Christian marriage in the performance of pastoral duties. Elders are to refuse to serve as agents of the state in marriage. Elders are to decline from signing government provided marriage licenses and/or certificates. Elders are to ask that couples seek civil marriage separately from any church-related vows, promises, commitments, and/or blessings.

G. We support the unimpeded right of parents to provide for the education of their children in the manner they deem best, including home schooling

Seeing that our fellowship isn't incorporated with the state, and seeing that our elders aren't licensed with the state, our elders do not act as agents of the state in marriage. Legally speaking, they couldn't sign a civil marriage certificate if they wanted to. Our elders bless couples and conduct commitment ceremonies that recognize the spiritual covenant between a man and a woman. If a couple desires to have their union blessed by the government, they are free to consult a Justice of the Peace.

For a good reason my man. I mean what in heaven's name would you tell young people? That they should live with their girlfriends? What kind of example would you set? No, no one needs a preacher who has a mile long excuse for why he is living with his girlfriend, and playing house.

What those who do not participate in civil licensing of marriage have been teaching their young people for centuries. You're so caught up in this world EB. It's glitz, it's glamour, it's power structures. You think licensing makes you something special. You think if something is licensed with the government it is real, and if it isn't licensed with the government it's fake. Here you betray yourself. You reveal that your God is human government and incorporated power structures of religion. My friend, none of that is eternal. You really think the constructs around you are of God? Do you believe that God is aligned with all the incorporation, licensing, etc., etc.? Do you think God blesses "civil marriages" when the laws government them are not only unbiblical, but are Hell bent on embracing the ways of Sodom? We don't. To us being "separate" from the world (holy) is far more than a dress code (because that's all you have). It is a manner of living. We believe in rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. Therefore, it is God who joins a man and woman in marriage, not Caesar. Now, that couple can go before Caesar and ask him to recognize their union for government benefits if they choose. But we do not see them as being bound to do so.

A calling is just that, you are called by God. Not by you, it isn't something like you want to collect butterflies, or stamps. No one is called for a time. Yet, you couldn't be a minister. Unless you wanted to be in the Moses David Berg's Children of God.

I believe that people can be called for a time and season to serve a purpose. Just because a man was called to preach (as you understand it) for a few years doesn't mean he's called to preach his entire life long or as a vocation. I was called for a season. That season is OVER. And I'm not going to allow another man to bait me with the hopes and dreams of ministry to keep me on the hook and line waiting for the day that never comes ever again. It's a manipulation tactic. And I have insulated my self from that bondage.

TO BE CONTINUED

[Aquila]

CONTINUED

Chris, strength is never a weakness. So the above needs to be considered only by you. You need to take your own advise, and heal thyself.
I can literally line a city street with people who parrot the very same words. They move ever so gently, telling everyone they are full of mess, sinners to the raging core. Yet, saved by grace, as you listen to them, you could swear you hear the shuffle of angel's feet. But when the preacher tells them to get back on track and live right through the power of the cross they refuse. Because they are more focused on sin, then repentance. They aren't struggling, they are flat out refusing to get right. Bro, the wheat never massage the tares, or look to have a lovely time of chatting while you destroy yourself and others. Ever heard, real friends don't let friends dive drunk? I'm not going to stand around while you make believe, and just let you walk off the cliff with people following you.

If you were really concerned with my spiritual welfare you wouldn't be openly harassing me and slandering me publically. Previous generations might have been given to such social pressure. My generation sees this as a tactic employed by the weak and cowardly. If you're brave and your motives pure, consult me privately. I might have taken you seriously if you conversed with me in private message. But the spectacle you've made it out in the open only shows that you're out for slander and defamation. You couldn't care less about my soul. This is how I know that you're only a lair, a fake, and an abuser.

In addition based on what you have expressed to me since I've known you, to "get right", would include:

1.) Sobbing in a blithering mess under your watchful eye in a prayer room.
2.) Becoming a conservative Republican.
3.) Renouncing any concern for social justice.
4.) Denying the notion that some might need psychological care.
5.) Denying that PTSD even exists.
6.) Demanding that my wife not work or peruse any of her dreams.
7.) Entering a civil contract with the state that binds my marriage to being governed by unbiblical laws.
8.) Raising my kids in a bubble of religious isolation.
9.) Attending some artificial structure filled with bang-clang music and sycophants that pander to a single man in a suit.
10.) Sit in a row of noses every Sunday.
11.) Pay my tithes to the man in the suit.
12.) Dress and live exactly as the man in the suit tells me.
13.) And claim all of this makes me holier than those who don't do these things.

Only after I did these things would you think I had "gotten right". And I find the above to be pure foolishness.

[Aquila]

Concerning civil marriage: The only thing that caused us to consider a civil marriage was being able to claim the other's Social Security. We'd both had civil marriages before. We were the faithful parties in each. Yet the civil court system raked us over the coals and cost each of us thousands of dollars to line the pockets of divorce attorneys. I even had to prove that I wasn't secretly taking my son to the church my wife and I served in else she was going to fight my having joint custody of my son on the grounds of it being an abusive cult. The civil marriage system doesn't demand grounds for divorce as the Bible requires. It doesn't prohibit remarriage for unfaithful parties. It doesn't concern itself with who was wronged and who wasn't and penalize the unfaithful one. It blesses Sodomites and marries them in the eyes of the state. It threatens Christian parents with losing child custody. It is known to turn and financially oppresses the innocent party in a divorce and reward the guilty party. Why in God's name would any real Christian bring their union under such a binding contract???

I tend to agree with GotQuestions.org:

Question: "What constitutes marriage according to the Bible?"
https://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-constitutes.html

The end of the article sums it up:

So, what constitutes marriage in God’s eyes? It would seem that the following principles should be followed: 1) As long as the requirements are reasonable and not against the Bible, a man and a woman should seek whatever formal governmental recognition is available. 2) A man and a woman should follow whatever cultural, familial, and covenantal practices are typically employed to recognize a couple as “officially married.” 3) If possible, a man and a woman should consummate the marriage sexually, fulfilling the physical aspect of the “one flesh” principle.

What if one or more of these principles are not fulfilled? Is such a couple still considered married in God’s eyes? Ultimately, that is between the couple and God. God knows our hearts (1 John 3:20). God knows the difference between a true marriage covenant and an attempt to justify sexual immorality.

In my opinion, the civil laws governing marriage bind a Christian marriage to an unbiblical body of laws. Since the government allows for "no fault" divorce, it offers far more liability than security. It also binds a Christian to have to go before unbelieving courts to settle marriage disputes and divorce. So, point number "1" cannot be fulfilled in a civil marriage.

Culturally speaking, over half of couples in our culture form unions and cohabitate, refusing to put their relationships under this body of law. Various groups of Quakers, Amish, German Baptist, etc, have seen this and refuse to subject their marriages to the civil law system. So, as it relates to culture, unions outside of the civil marriage laws are not uncommon or illegal. So point number "2" isn't of concern.

Point number "3" is not a problem for any couple who is in love and passionate about their union.

So, I do believe that a couple can be married in God's eyes outside of a civil contract with the government.

I'm not alone in my opinion. Here are some CONSERVATIVE quotes about marriage and how it should or can be blessed apart from the government:

"My personal opinion is government shouldn’t be involved. The whole country would be better off if individuals made those decisions and it was a private matter." ~ Ron Paul

"The best approach is to make marriage a private matter. When we no longer believe that civilization is dependent on government expansion, regulating excesses, and a license for everything we do, we will know that civilization and the ideas of liberty are advancing." ~ Ron Paul

"Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriage in their Family Bibles. So should we." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State—literally! I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given it’s unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of idolatry for me to do so." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"When I marry a couple, I always buy them a Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a marriage certificate. We record the marriage in the Family Bible... Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we." ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

"Some couples choose to marry within the meeting without registering their marriage with the government, a tradition dating back to Quakerism's earliest days." ~ From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"While most Friends’ marriage ceremonies conform to civil law, couples who do not want, or are not eligible to contract a legal marriage occasionally ask for a ceremony of commitment or a wedding under the care of the Meeting. The Religious Society of Friends has long asserted its freedom to conduct under divine leading marriage ceremonies not conforming to civil law." ~ Society of Friends, Faith and Practice

This manner of living was around long before I came to understand it. And so, just because you don't agree, it doesn't mean that you're right. In fact, I contend that it means that you feel the state legitimizes your authority on the matter. And that means you rely on something other than God.

So, you can believe we're not married in the eyes of God if you wish. But it doesn't mean that you're right. And if I'm right in keeping my marriage free from being chained to a corrupt system of marriage laws, maybe I'm not half as "messed up" as you think I am.

At the end of the day, it is the government's abandonment of biblical principles regarding marriage that has made civil marriage so undesirable to so many couples.

There's an old saying. It states, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Both of us have already been to the civil marriage rodeo. It didn't protect our marriages or our interests one bit. In fact, it didn't prove to be anything but pure hell in the legal battles that were waged to be free from unfaithful and abusive spouses. That's not God's will. Regarding an apostate or unbelieving spouse wishing to leave a marriage Paul wrote,

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Paul didn't tell them to go to Roman courts and get a divorce. Paul didn't tell them to endure months or years of legal battles to be free of an unfaithful spouse. Paul didn't tell them to spend thousands of dollars to protect themselves from being exploited by a corrupt system of secular civil marriage law. Paul simply said, "if the unbelieving depart, let him depart". Let them go. Let them leave. Goodbye. Over. Done. In addition to this, Paul also states that the saint of God is no longer under bondage to that covenant in such cases, and that God has called us to peace... not a legal war. In fact, Paul admonishes Christians NOT to settle disputes in the unbelieving courts of this world:

1 Corinthians 6:1-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

We're to take our issues and disputes to the saints of God, not the courts of law. If an unfaithful, apostate, or unbelieving spouse departs, and the church cannot help to save the relationship, we are to just let them go and move on in the Lord. We are no longer under bondage to that covenant.

So, if there is a marriage "farce", the only real "farce" is civil marriage.

Instead of calling a marriage outside of civil law "Quaker marriage", one could call such a marriage a "Pauline Marriage".

[Evang.Benincasa]

Aquila. were you legally divorced from your wife before you started living with your girlfriend?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Yes and no. A common law marriage entered into in Ohio before October 10, l991 constitutes a valid, legal marriage in Ohio. On October 10, l991, Ohio abolished common law marriage. After that date, no new common law marriages can be formed.
Ohio Marriage FAQs | DivorceNet
www.divorcenet.com/states/ohio/ohfaq01

Aquila there is NO common law marriages in Ohio.

So, you are just living with your girlfriend.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Brother Aquila, There isn't anything more precious than the souls of your family. Time passes, children grow up, and all the selfish things that we do come back to confront us in the form of regrets. Forgive me for being candid in my thoughts, let me just say that I've been praying for you and to me it seems simple. Legally marry your wife, take your family to an apostolic church, be still, sit and listen and find God's direction. Give your family every chance to be saved because it really isn't about you. Turn off the news, the media, the world and seek the face of God for your family.

Amen!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're so caught up in this world EB. It's glitz, it's glamour, it's power structures. You think licensing makes you something special. You think if something is licensed with the government it is real, and if it isn't licensed with the government it's fake. Here you betray yourself. You reveal that your God is human government and incorporated power structures of religion. My friend, none of that is eternal. You really think the constructs around you are of God? Do you believe that God is aligned with all the incorporation, licensing, etc., etc.? Do you think God blesses "civil marriages" when the laws government them are not only unbiblical, but are Hell bent on embracing the ways of Sodom? We don't. To us being "separate" from the world (holy) is far more than a dress code (because that's all you have). It is a manner of living. We believe in rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. Therefore, it is God who joins a man and woman in marriage, not Caesar. Now, that couple can go before Caesar and ask him to recognize their union for government benefits if they choose. But we do not see them as being bound to do so.

Oh, my! The above RED statement is one of the funniest things I've seen said about Bro. Benincasa in a long time!

Believe me, Aquila, you REALLY have no idea who Bro. Benincasa is if you seriously believe what you said above.