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  #131  
Old 12-11-2014, 03:50 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
It shouldn't be allowed, and it's typically never allowed, yet read for yourself - the Prosecutor allowed the cop himself to plead his case. That's worse than I thought and stated previously, when I posted the cop's attorney spoke to the GJ.
Who says it should not be allowed?

Isn't his testimony part of any evidence too?
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  #132  
Old 12-11-2014, 03:54 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
Everything I've read said the grand jury can request to have the defendant testify.
I read that too...dont bother posting a link though since they wont read it
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  #133  
Old 12-11-2014, 04:51 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Im gonna answer

I believe Juries are right MOST of the time...even when someone was really innocent.

Why? Because they based their decision on the evidence and if someone is innocent but found guilty, often it was not the Jury's fault but the prosecutor or defense or they just did not have the right evidence
MOST of the time? try 88% which by your definition is correct; however, 12% is too much of an error by any jury. http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publ...006/wp0605.pdf

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New Study Shows How Often Juries Get It Wrong
A new Northwestern University study shows that juries in criminal cases many times are getting it wrong.
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June 26, 2007 | by Pat Vaughan Tremmel

EVANSTON, Ill. --- Juries across the country make decisions every day on the fate of defendants, ideally leading to prison sentences that fit the crime for the guilty and release for the innocent. Yet a new Northwestern University study shows that juries in criminal cases many times are getting it wrong.

In a set of 271 cases from four areas, juries gave wrong verdicts in at least one out of eight cases, according to “Estimating the Accuracy of Jury Verdicts,” a paper by a Northwestern University statistician that is being published in the July issue of Journal of Empirical Legal Studies.

“Contrary to popular belief, this study strongly suggests that DNA or other after-the-fact evidence is not the only way to know how often jury verdicts are correct,” said Bruce Spencer, the study's author, professor of statistics and faculty fellow at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern. “Based on findings from a limited sample, I am optimistic that larger, carefully designed statistical studies would have much to tell us about the accuracy of jury verdicts.”

Spencer cautions that the numerical findings should not be generalized to broader sets of cases, for which additional study would be needed, but the study strongly suggests that jury verdicts can be studied statistically. If such studies were conducted on a large scale, they might lead to better understanding of the prevalence of incorrect verdicts -- false convictions and false acquittals, he said.

To conduct the study, Spencer employed a replication analysis of jury verdicts, comparing decisions of actual jurors with decisions of judges who were hearing the cases they were deciding. In other words, as a jury was deliberating about a particular verdict, its judge filled out a questionnaire giving what he or she believed to be the correct verdict.

“Consider the analogy to sample surveys, where sampling error is estimated even though the true value may never be known,” Spencer said. “The key is replication. To assess the accuracy of jury verdicts, we need a second opinion of what the verdict should be.”

By comparing agreement rates of judges and juries over time and across jurisdictions, and even across types of cases, Spencer's statistical analysis could give insights into the comparative accuracy of verdicts in different sets of cases.

For his analysis, Spencer utilized a study with a special set of cases that was recently conducted in the United States by the National Center for State Courts (NCSC). An earlier study was conducted by Kalven and Zeisel in the 1950s.

The agreement rate was 77 percent in the NCSC study and 80 percent for the earlier study. Allowing for chance agreement, the agreement rates were not high. (With chance agreement, for example, if two people tossed coins heads or tails independently to see if they matched, one would expect agreement, heads-heads or tails-tails, 50 percent of the time.)

To obtain a numerical estimate of jury accuracy, some assumptions were made, as is the case for virtually any statistical analysis of social groups or programs. A key assumption of Spencer's study is that, on average, the judge's verdict is at least as likely to be correct as the jury's verdict.

Without assumptions, a 77 percent agreement rate could reflect 100 percent accuracy by the judge and 77 percent accuracy by the jury, or 100 percent accuracy by the jury and 77 percent accuracy by the judge, or 88 percent accuracy by both, or even 50 percent accuracy by both if they often agreed on the incorrect verdict.

With the assumption of the Spencer analysis that judges are at least as accurate as jurors after completion of all testimony, we can get an estimate of jury accuracy that is likely to be higher than the actual accuracy. Thus, the 77 percent agreement rate means that juries are accurate up to 87 percent of the time or less, or reach an incorrect verdict in at least one out of eight cases.

“Some of the errors are incorrect acquittals, where the defendant goes free, and some are incorrect convictions,” Spencer said. “As a society can we be satisfied if 10 percent of convictions are incorrect? Can we be satisfied knowing that innocent people go to jail for many years for wrongful convictions?”

Spencer envisions that statistical studies would complement nationwide efforts to expose wrongful convictions, including the work of the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University School of Law. The center's work in exposing flaws in Illinois' capital punishment system played a significant role in former Gov. George Ryan's decision to commute Illinois death row inmates' pending executions to sentences of life in prison.

The NCSC study is not representative of a larger set of cases, Spencer stressed. He hopes that nationally representative studies will be carried out in the future.

Using additional assumptions and statistical models, the extent of wrongful convictions and wrongful acquittals also can be estimated, according to Spencer. The methods also could be extended to estimate accuracy of verdicts in non-jury trials.

While the studies on verdict accuracy will not tell whether the verdict for a particular case was correct or not, they will help assess what proportion of verdicts are correct.

“If you were on trial and not guilty, you certainly would want the jury to do the right thing,” Spencer said. “Now, subject to these assumptions, studies could be employed to give us an idea of how often that happens.”

A technical report is available at http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publ...006/wp0605.pdf.
- See more at: http://www.northwestern.edu/newscent....V3rkPPhn.dpuf

Last edited by BrotherEastman; 12-11-2014 at 04:54 PM.
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  #134  
Old 12-11-2014, 05:14 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
MOST of the time? try 88% which by your definition is correct;
First of the time 88% IS Most of the time.....Hello?

50% is HALF the time

Second, you missed the point. I was clear that most of the time they got the right verdict based on what evidence was presented and how well the prosecutor or defense did

Juries can only go based on the evidence. They can't guess and hope to get it right.So if the evidence can only show innocence or guilt, by law, they have to find that person innocent or guilty even IF that verdict might be wrong because a piece of evidence was not submitted

FOR EXAMPLE

Many men have been accused and found guilty of a crime based on what evidence they had and the efforts of each side.

Later forensic evidence was discovered OR later tested because at the time we did not have that ability, that showed that person could not be guilty. the Jury did not have that evidence at the time so their verdict, based on the evidence was correct
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  #135  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:23 PM
n david n david is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Who says it should not be allowed?

Isn't his testimony part of any evidence too?
His testimony relating to the facts of the case, perhaps. Pleading his case, talking about how he feels about what he did and how badly he feels is not okay and shouldn't have been allowed.
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  #136  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:34 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
His testimony relating to the facts of the case, perhaps. Pleading his case, talking about how he feels about what he did and how badly he feels is not okay and shouldn't have been allowed.
How do we know what he did?

BTW how he felt is a part of a person's witness. It goes to whether or not there was malice or intent
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #137  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:39 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

Thats what I said Prax (you were correct). lol However, 12% is still to much to get WRONG.

Last edited by BrotherEastman; 12-11-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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  #138  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:44 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Pressing On must have me on ignore. LOL
I am not ignoring you. I just didn't feel like running in circles with you, Jermyn. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a prosperous New Year. Please turn off CNN and MSNBC. Liberals are racists. BTW, if you don't believe that, read the Sony hacked emails.
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Last edited by Pressing-On; 12-11-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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  #139  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:46 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Im gonna answer

I believe Juries are right MOST of the time...even when someone was really innocent.

Why? Because they based their decision on the evidence and if someone is innocent but found guilty, often it was not the Jury's fault but the prosecutor or defense or they just did not have the right evidence
Ruh-Roh!!!
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  #140  
Old 12-11-2014, 08:29 PM
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Re: Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indi

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Ruh-Roh!!!
there is a 12% chance that the Grand Jury could've been wrong, doesn't that at least bother you?
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