born of water - Page 14

mfblume · #**131** 12-18-2014, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Calling on the NAME of the Lord at baptism, by the one baptized, is tantamount to baptizing oneself. Nowhere in scripture do we see that; even Saul of Tarsus, when the Lord called him, was sent to a disciple to show him the way.

Very good point!

Originalist · #**132** 12-19-2014, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Every organization, like the Catholic Church, has a chain of command. Likewise the Body of Christ. Unlike the other organizations, the ministry is mandated to say "...thus saith the Lord...", and not voice personal opinions.

Calling on the NAME of the Lord at baptism, by the one baptized, is tantamount to baptizing oneself. Nowhere in scripture do we see that; even Saul of Tarsus, when the Lord called him, was sent to a disciple to show him the way.

How so? They are not physically immersing themselves. The one baptizing them will not immerse them until he hears them calling on the Lord. Sadly your view is typical of the sacerdotal teachings followed by many Apostolics, placing ones salvation in the hands of another instead of in Christ. There simply is no teaching in scripture that says my invoking the name of Jesus over a sinner somehow takes away or forgives their sins. As for "baptizing oneself", I would hope one would do so if they were in a country or situation where nobody was available to baptize them. God would honor so great a faith.

Sean · #**133** 12-19-2014, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

Sean, baptism does a lot of things, but it doesn't change the inner nature of a man.

Is that right....Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Are you FREE from sin?....Baptism free's us from sin. That is an operation of God that has crucified the OLD MAN(old nature).

That can only be done via the effect of the operation of the Spirit of Christ. Only the Spirit can transform a person from the inside out. In water baptism we are baptized into Christ's death, buried with him in baptism, and we are to arise to walk in newness of life, however the change in the nature of a man is only accomplished through the Spirit. Yes, the Spirit can and will work through the process of baptism if there is faith in the heart of the person being baptized, however it's not the act of baptism itself that causes this change, but its the operation of the Spirit.

Is that what the passages say that I posted above?

With that said, baptism is an ordinance of God, commanded by God, and essential for every repentant believer. Scripture tell us that it is a washing from sin (Acts 22:16), it is a burial place for the old man (Romans 6), through it we are baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27), we take on his name (Acts 8:16), and as the Red Sea cut off Israel from Egypt, we are cut off from out past life of sin as we go through the waters of baptism in Jesus name.

It is more than just a symbolic ritual. It is an OPERATION of GOD, made without hands!!!

Sean · #**134** 12-19-2014, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

So the repentant sinner invoking Jesus Christ while being baptized won't do, huh? That name only has supernatural power if the the baptizer invokes it over the sinner who is being baptized.

It works for faith healing, why not water baptism? The Apostles did it.

Welcome to the Catholic Church.

They actually are more correct than many folks here that think you can be saved prior to water baptism. You realize that the Catholics changed the method of baptism, but some folks here have completed the job by saying baptism is not necessary to remit sins. They say that you only need the Spirit....shame, shame!

Sean · #**135** 12-19-2014, 06:42 AM

These "last days" anti-baptism arguments from Protestants are actually a step farther from the truth, and a continuation of the eroding and ultimately the eradication process of water baptism that the Catholics started!!!

obriencp · #**136** 12-19-2014, 07:28 AM

I don't believe we are anti-baptism we just realize it's the operation of the Spirit that makes us born again. Baptism is a commandment and I personally believe it should be done in Jesus' name. I just believe it is part of the conversion process and not a "step" in one's salvation. A step in their walk with God yes, but if God fills someone with the Holy Ghost, they are born again and spiritually alive at that point.

Sean · #**137** 12-19-2014, 07:35 AM

Like I said.....

Sean · #**138** 12-19-2014, 07:39 AM

Here is what some folks are doing at these altars when they see someone get the Holy Ghost these days...

They tell the unbaptized individual.."you're saved now, you have the Spirit inside"!

All the while, the Lord says..."he that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved"!

I guess the Lord will just have to get over it and accept the fact that we have a difference of opinion with Him!!!

thephnxman · #**139** 12-19-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obriencp

I don't believe we are anti-baptism we just realize it's the operation of the Spirit that makes us born again. Baptism is a commandment and I personally believe it should be done in Jesus' name. I just believe it is part of the conversion process and not a "step" in one's salvation. A step in their walk with God yes, but if God fills someone with the Holy Ghost, they are born again and spiritually alive at that point.

Are you saying one can DENY baptism "...for the remission of sins...", and be saved? See, it's not just
about "baptism". If baptism is unnecessary, why would the Lord be so emphatic about it? For His own baptism,
he said "...it behooves us to fulfill all righteousness." Then, "Go you therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them..."; and then, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved."????

Baptism is not incidental, but a requirement for salvation.

Originalist · #**140** 12-19-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Here is what some folks are doing at these altars when they see someone get the Holy Ghost these days...

They tell the unbaptized individual.."you're saved now, you have the Spirit inside"!

All the while, the Lord says..."he that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved"!

I guess the Lord will just have to get over it and accept the fact that we have a difference of opinion with Him!!!

What business scripturally do we have praying for people to receive the Spirit who have not been baptized? e