Back with some new perspective

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Of course. It is when those dress codes become the measuring stick of another person's status with God that the spirit of the Pharisees (or the leaven of the Pharisees) is present.

I concur.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Ok.... I just now read the thread and as usual find myself in the middle.

I do agree with most of N David's responses though.

Roxanne It's important to realize there are many honest, transparent, and well educated members in the UPC and conservative "standard adhering" groups within the. Body of Christ. Because you and your pastor were not, doesn't automatically speak to the character of others.

Now, I am not educated with degrees in higher learning, but even in my most conservative times I was not condemning, judgmental, nor even excessively critical of those attending nonstandard churches.

Sooo... It seems to me when we profile conservatives as a block we risk embracing the same thinking that often leads to labeling those who have left as "charismatics" (like they all are, or that it's a bad thing).

We can speak of our own experience and shallowness... But beyond that, postulating carries little weight. I rejoice in new-found honesty wherever it's found, but wholly understand that disingenuous, shallow, and condemning people are found everywhere. We all need Jesus to speak to us about His sufficiency in our lives.

I am late getting in on this thread as well, but Steve, I must say you have just again reminded me why I have such great respect for you.

Welcome back, Roxanne!!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Of course. It is when those dress codes become the measuring stick of another person's status with God that the spirit of the Pharisees (or the leaven of the Pharisees) is present.

Roxanne,

I have been away for a few weeks so just today saw this thread. I think your quote above pretty much sums up in my mind your metamorphosis.

Since you communicated to me privately some time ago about what was happening with you, your husband, and your church I have been praying for all as you go through this process.

I hoped that when the time was right you would engage again in the forum so I am very pleased to see your thread here.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by CC1

Roxanne,

I have been away for a few weeks so just today saw this thread. I think your quote above pretty much sums up in my mind your metamorphosis.

Since you communicated to me privately some time ago about what was happening with you, your husband, and your church I have been praying for all as you go through this process.

I hoped that when the time was right you would engage again in the forum so I am very pleased to see your thread here.

Yes, I remember that Sean did chat with you privately about what we are (and have been) experiencing. We appreciate your friendship, encouragement and prayers. It continues to be an interesting ride at times but we are seeing God do some amazing things in our church body as God continues to lead us as we reach out for hungry hearts and we see Him bring healing and new life to those same hungry hearts.

[tv1a]

That is a poor copout for an organization who profession to have a monopoly on truth, standards should be higher.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

There's bad on both sides of the aisle and there's bad in EVERY organization and denomination. Anyone who doesn't realize that is simply naive. Anywhere there are people, there are going to be flaws.

[tv1a]

Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.

Originally Posted by n david

This.

Also 99% of the time it's used as a derogatory term meant to bash UPC'ers or other conservatives.

[n david]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.

You just proved my point.

99% of the time it's used as a derogatory term meant to bash UPC'ers or other conservatives.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tv1a

That is a poor copout for an organization who profession to have a monopoly on truth, standards should be higher.

It wasn't spoken in defense of an organization as much as to point out that other organizations have similar problems. People are the common denominator; not the acronym.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Incorrect as usual N. A Pharisee is a person who judges a person by non biblical standards, which most of the upc and ultra conservatives do.

A Pharisee is anyone who is hypocritical and self-righteous. Non-biblical standards aren't required for that sort of attitude.

[tv1a]

When the majority of ultra conservatives and upc stop decades of hypocrisy, than maybe the label will wear off.

Originally Posted by n david

You just proved my point.