Maybe I'm Too Harsh

Originally Posted by Barb

You are NOT splitting hell wide open...!!

Will CC1 just slide into hell through a little crack in the gates?...

JUST KIDDING, CC1!!!

Originally Posted by CC1

Nobody Important,

I don't know anybody on AFF who thinks you don't have a right to a strong set of beliefs just like all of us have.

The only complaint I know of is in how you express that belief sometimes to people. Others manage to do it without being condescending,etc.

I have ultra con friends on here who I know absolutely believe I am splitting hell wide open because I wear rings, watch TV, on the rare occasion wear shorts, go to football games, etc. However they are mature enough to seperate their personal view of my eternal destination from things we do have in common like a shared heritage, shared view of Oneness, Jesus name baptism,love of the Lord, etc. The shared things are the basis of our relationship, not the differences. Doesn't mean we don't fuss and tangle on AFF over those differences but it is never personal.

Honestly, I do not know that many on here personally. So, my feelings should not be taken as personal except that they are personal to me.
My concern for those who do not believe in holiness et all is deeply felt. It is something that when I see others making light of it (not just standards), I find it grieving to say the least.
Thanks for your response here.
I sincerely hope that while my remarks can be acerbic, that they can also be taken as from my point of view.
I do not consider myself the judge of anyone, but even Paul said I judge all things.
I do feel we are permitted within biblical mandates to determine what is holy and what is not.
Again (I have stated this several times before) these are my personal feelings

[Whole Hearted]

Good to see you tonight NI.

[tv1a]

A few scattered points.

Chaotic. your reference about Paul not having a waiting period does not work. Paul was not a novice. He was extremely religious before his coversion. It is possible during the three days of prayer and fasting in Acts 9:9, God showed Paul how it all fit together. Combine revelation with Old Testament knowledge and you have someone who was ready to preach the Gospel right away. Remember a few verses later, Paul sat down with the apostles and discussed what happened, and to make sure his theology was straight.
******************************
NI, WH,

Your standards do not come from the Bible. Your standards comes from your interpretation of Biblical principle. Where the problem arises is you thnk your interpretation of standards is the only legitimate interpretation. Just because you find something in the Bible you think you can make a rule from doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. What you are doing is no different than the jewish christians who attempted to force circumcision upon the gentile christians. The jews used scriptures to back up their claims that circumcision was a part of salvation. It took a man of God to call them out and expose thiat philosophy.

What I see is the inability to separate convictions from standards.
Convictions are personal. Standards is the phrase used when attempting to indoctrinate someone.

If you believe you need to live by subjective rules to be saved, than more power to you. I encourage you to have convictions based on principle.

Principles are absolute. The interpretation of principle varies. Need Proof? God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son while Jesus asked the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give to he poor. What do these examples have in common? It was a test to see how willing these individuals were to do what it takes for God. . The principle was the same, but the methodolgies differ.

[ManOfWord]

Wow, TV......pretty well said!!!! Not sure I could add a whole lot to this. I applaud people with convictions who live by them. However, it is a weak person, indeed, who feels that the whole world must "convert" to their convictions.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by tv1a

A few scattered points.

Chaotic. your reference about Paul not having a waiting period does not work. Paul was not a novice. He was extremely religious before his coversion. It is possible during the three days of prayer and fasting in Acts 9:9, God showed Paul how it all fit together. Combine revelation with Old Testament knowledge and you have someone who was ready to preach the Gospel right away. Remember a few verses later, Paul sat down with the apostles and discussed what happened, and to make sure his theology was straight.
******************************
NI, WH,

Your standards do not come from the Bible. Your standards comes from your interpretation of Biblical principle. Where the problem arises is you thnk your interpretation of standards is the only legitimate interpretation. Just because you find something in the Bible you think you can make a rule from doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. What you are doing is no different than the jewish christians who attempted to force circumcision upon the gentile christians. The jews used scriptures to back up their claims that circumcision was a part of salvation. It took a man of God to call them out and expose thiat philosophy.

What I see is the inability to separate convictions from standards.
Convictions are personal. Standards is the phrase used when attempting to indoctrinate someone.

If you believe you need to live by subjective rules to be saved, than more power to you. I encourage you to have convictions based on principle.

Principles are absolute. The interpretation of principle varies. Need Proof? God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son while Jesus asked the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give to he poor. What do these examples have in common? It was a test to see how willing these individuals were to do what it takes for God. . The principle was the same, but the methodolgies differ.

Good post!

[Timmy]

I still believe that holiness is essential

a voice that does not allow all the worldly vices that those who have been "set free" allow.

There are those here that take offence to anyone who stands for truth.

My concern for those who do not believe in holiness et all is deeply felt.

If I may add my 2 cents (an "outsider's" opinion may be helpful?), comments like these imply that anyone who disagrees with you:

1. Does not believe in holiness. Not just that they differ on what it is, or how it is displayed in one's life -- that they do not believe in it!

2. Participates in "worldly vices". Now, this one may be true, in a way, if we accept your definition of such "vices".

3. Does not stand for truth. This one really gets to me. I try to laugh it off (it is kind of funny, when you think about it!), but it's a serious problem around here. Are we to believe that anyone who disagrees with you does not love truth? And further, they take offense to anyone who "stands for truth"?

Take me, for example. If you've seen some of my posts, you may think that I do not love truth. Uh yeah. Like I always say to myself when I read things here that I don't agree with, "Oooo, I really hate that truth!"

So, are you guys serious? You really think there are folks here on AFF who literally hate truth? Think about what you're saying. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, and are free to express them (but it's weird to whine, when people post differing opinions), but some of these "opinions" are nothing more than not-very-subtle slams at your opposition. If that's the best you can do to support your position, well, maybe your position is not as strong as you'd like to think.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Chaotic. your reference about Paul not having a waiting period does not work. Paul was not a novice. He was extremely religious before his coversion. It is possible during the three days of prayer and fasting in Acts 9:9, God showed Paul how it all fit together. Combine revelation with Old Testament knowledge and you have someone who was ready to preach the Gospel right away. Remember a few verses later, Paul sat down with the apostles and discussed what happened, and to make sure his theology was straight.
******************************

So then, using your example, any current denominal minister could begin ministering almost immediately (w/3 days prayer and fasting and a discussion with some other ministers). Would that include satanists? Many of them know the Word better than a few licensed ministers I know.

Originally Posted by tv1a

A few scattered points...NI, WH,

Your standards do not come from the Bible. Your standards comes from your interpretation of Biblical principle. Where the problem arises is you thnk your interpretation of standards is the only legitimate interpretation. Just because you find something in the Bible you think you can make a rule from doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. What you are doing is no different than the jewish christians who attempted to force circumcision upon the gentile christians. The jews used scriptures to back up their claims that circumcision was a part of salvation. It took a man of God to call them out and expose thiat philosophy.

What I see is the inability to separate convictions from standards.
Convictions are personal. Standards is the phrase used when attempting to indoctrinate someone.

If you believe you need to live by subjective rules to be saved, than more power to you. I encourage you to have convictions based on principle.

Principles are absolute. The interpretation of principle varies. Need Proof? God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son while Jesus asked the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give to he poor. What do these examples have in common? It was a test to see how willing these individuals were to do what it takes for God. . The principle was the same, but the methodolgies differ.

Principles and holiness go hand in hand. I think you may agree with that.
These are my own feelings on the matter. It does grieve me when I see others who trounce upon what I feel to be holy and worthwhile.
It does not mean that I won't:

• Fellowship with them
• Talk to them
• Debate with them
• Try to be a friend
• Try to show what I consider a better way

Again, I have posted this several times, but someone is failing to see it:
THIS IS MY OWN POINT OF VIEW

Did you see that that time? Do I need to post this again so that maybe you will see it?

I can see that I am and someone is so I willout here.

BTW: the smilies on AFF ROCK!!!

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by NobodyImportant

Principles and holiness go hand in hand. I think you may agree with that.
These are my own feelings on the matter. It does grieve me when I see others who trounce upon what I feel to be holy and worthwhile.
It does not mean that I won't:

• Fellowship with them
• Talk to them
• Debate with them
• Try to be a friend
• Try to show what I consider a better way

Again, I have posted this several times, but someone is failing to see it:
THIS IS MY OWN POINT OF VIEW

Did you see that that time? Do I need to post this again so that maybe you will see it?

I can see that I am and someone is so I willout here.

BTW: the smilies on AFF ROCK!!!

NI, you are welcomed to hold the views you hold. You are respected for holding them dear to your heart. The only problem that arises is when you intimate that those who do not hold the same views as you, are less holy, less spiritual and not close to the Lord. Maybe that is not what you mean to communicate, but it does come across that way many times.

I read what you posted above about your opinion. Point well taken. As long as your posts match up to what you stated, I doubt if there will be any problems. Start criticizing people for not holding your views and expect to be shot at.....every time!