Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[bbyrd009]

Oh, please. I seriously doubt you guys could get together on a def of "Apostolic" if your life depended on it.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Oh, please. I seriously doubt you guys could get together on a def of "Apostolic" if your life depended on it.

That is a true statement.

[bbyrd009]

I'm pretty sure "defining" is where we lose it, anyway...

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Lacey

I'll pray that she talks to her Pastor and not get her spiritual advice from Facebook.

Her pastor may be the problem.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Oh, please. I seriously doubt you guys could get together on a def of "Apostolic" if your life depended on it.

Each member has his/her idea what "Apostolic" means.
There is no consensus.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

A teacher who teaches a woman will go to hell for cutting her hair is a false teacher and will be lost. That NEVER appears in ANY scripture.

I disagree with you, Michael. IMO, a "false teacher" is someone who deliberately teaches lies. If a preacher truly believes something will affect salvation and they don't preach it, they aren't worth their salt. When they don't preach it (or share it in some way), it leads me to two possible conclusions: 1. They don't really care whether or not people are saved, or 2. They don't truly believe the issue is salvational.

If we're going to use your logic, then we can just go around labeling everyone who teaches or preaches anything with which we disagree a "false teacher" and say they're all going to hell.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree with you, Michael. IMO, a "false teacher" is someone who deliberately teaches lies. If a preacher truly believes something will affect salvation and they don't preach it, they aren't worth their salt. When they don't preach it (or share it in some way), it leads me to two possible conclusions: 1. They don't really care whether or not people are saved, or 2. They don't truly believe the issue is salvational.

If we're going to use your logic, then we can just go around labeling everyone who teaches or preaches anything with which we disagree a "false teacher" and say they're all going to hell.

So do we bring outcome based teaching to the position of pastor? If the pastor FEELS something is right, he better preach it, even if it is wrong? In the school little Johnny is told that 2+2 CAN equal 5 if it makes him feel good about it. Do we bring that same standard to the ministry? False teaching is false teaching, even if the minister doesn't know any better.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree with you, Michael. IMO, a "false teacher" is someone who deliberately teaches lies. If a preacher truly believes something will affect salvation and they don't preach it, they aren't worth their salt. When they don't preach it (or share it in some way), it leads me to two possible conclusions: 1. They don't really care whether or not people are saved, or 2. They don't truly believe the issue is salvational.

If we're going to use your logic, then we can just go around labeling everyone who teaches or preaches anything with which we disagree a "false teacher" and say they're all going to hell.

Sorry, MB, gotta hold my ground on this one. If it's not in the scripture, and a preacher preaches that one will go to hell for doing/not doing it, it's false doctrine. Just ask the Apostle Paul.

If what you say is true, and a pastor preaches something that is not in scripture, and a saint does not obey, does that make that saint wrong and in danger of hell? I think not..........Paul said, "Follow me AS I follow Christ...."

Logical conclusion - if I stop following Christ, stop following me.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Newman was a brilliant lady both in the secular and in new studies of the Bible. She was wrong but brilliant. I did respect her. But Sabellius dismantled her theology point by point since he was so efficient in the Greek she was trying to use. He covered her up with sources. I do not mean to be arrogant nor rude this is just how it is on this subject. Many on the forum now were not there to see those real discussions. Again I refuted the magic hair teaching both on forums and in the pulpit.

Thanks for you kindness.

In the event some didn't know what you were referring to, this was Sabellius' argument:

On I Corinthians 11:15, the Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says, “In a number of languages it may be necessary to translate komaō as ‘to let one’s hair grow long’ or ‘not to cut one’s hair.’” Louw-Nida is a leading lexicon for Bible translators. The idea is that if the receptor language does not have a word for “uncut hair,” the translator should communicate this idea by his choice of words. See Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida, Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 8.14, 11.15.

Newman's argument was that if Paul was addressing the Greek speaking people, she didn't know why he would reach outside of the Greek language.

The Greek word for "uncut" is "akoptos".

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Sorry, MB, gotta hold my ground on this one. If it's not in the scripture, and a preacher preaches that one will go to hell for doing/not doing it, it's false doctrine. Just ask the Apostle Paul.

If what you say is true, and a pastor preaches something that is not in scripture, and a saint does not obey, does that make that saint wrong and in danger of hell? I think not..........Paul said, "Follow me AS I follow Christ...."

Logical conclusion - if I stop following Christ, stop following me.

I'm saying that "false doctrine" is subjective and shouldn't be a loosely used term. I don't believe preachers will be lost themselves simply because of a faulty understanding of scripture. I DO believe they will be lost if they deliberately mislead people because of peer pressure, keeping up appearances, selfish gain or any other kind of self-serving motivation. Being "sincerely wrong" isn't a sin, IMO. God does look at the heart of a man--including preachers and leaders who are wrong about their beliefs.

As for the "follow me as I follow Christ"--that speaks to a saint's right to choose who they follow and debunks the assertion by some pastors that saints have to ask them if they can attend another assembly. It doesn't support a saint remaining in an assembly and bucking against existing leadership.