The poor in America

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Understand but how are you applying this to the discussion? Are you using these scriptures to support gov welfare program? free cell phone service? etc..

Absolutely.

The bible talks about a cheerfull giver. Now the left is streeeetching that to be a cheerful tax payer.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha

Program

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Been on that end of things as well (scholarships, assistance in dire times, etc). Policies are imperfect, and you've exposed one of the flaws. Sometimes these situations, IMO, require case managers to do more than look at numbers and paperwork. Can I ask how much you were bringing in at the time with both jobs?

When you said you looked around the room and could tell "there were many who haven't worked a day in their life" it was a direct read into your emotions concerning this issue. Though, I'm not sure how you can determine that by a quick glance, and because not all of them were going to college and married, or could even see light at the end of their bleak tunnels.

The current system needs repair, for sure. And if more families helped provide for their own, more churches helped those in their community with need, etc we'd all be a lot further along. Of course, any of us who give today to someone, view it as an investment, and are looking for the ROI in a dividend of success that can point back to us and say "you saved me."

May God help us avoid being self-righteous, because we "did it ourselves" and "pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps." It's those who, not seeing their lives as gifts from God, gracious blessings bestowed, project the same level of gracelessness.

It is clear you didn't mention work as a solution. Get a job and save money.

Work!!

Get a job.

When leftists get all bossy and self righteous and tell people they aren't giving enough, it is rather remarkable that they don't understand when people are in a bind, they start getting creative. Resourcefull.

We need to allow people to discover resourcefullness and work. Handouts reinforce asking for handouts behavior.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

It is clear you didn't mention work as a solution. Get a job and save money.

Work!!

Get a job.

When leftists get all bossy and self righteous and tell people they aren't giving enough, it is rather remarkable that they don't understand when people are in a bind, they start getting creative. Resourcefull.

We need to allow people to discover resourcefullness and work. Handouts reinforce asking for handouts behavior.

You are pretty close to being put on IGNORE.

And self-righteousness runs deep on both sides of this issue. The self-righteous self-made man looking down his nose at other lesser people, judging them by his own status, as well as the person who helps/serves the poor in a way to make themselves feel righteous, and look down their nose at others who aren't doing as much.

Just saying "get a job" is the most simple-minded, narrow, minimalistic and ignorant explanation for the issue of poverty.

[coadie]

For you libs Reagan had a good comment.

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

Why do you think gubment knows better how to solve poverty problem than we do?

Kindly consider serving the poor instead of telling others what they should do.

Work solves a lot of problems. Welfare just pushes the problem to tomorrow.

[coadie]

2008 WASHINGTON — Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. The Republican campaign for president calls the tax increases their Democratic opponents propose "painful" instead of patriotic.

Sock puppets for Soros think it is the self righteous thing to do.Soros of course moved his home office offshore to avoid reporting and taxes.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

For you libs Reagan had a good comment.



Why do you think gubment knows better how to solve poverty problem than we do?

Kindly consider serving the poor instead of telling others what they should do.

Work solves a lot of problems. Welfare just pushes the problem to tomorrow.

Your continual use of the word "gubment" is offensive. But that's been said to you before, and you insist.

The government is not someone other than us. They are elected representatives that we elect to put into office, based on the policy they advocate. So let's not be overly-dramatic. Our government's system of checks and balances (including senate, house, legislature, supreme court, direct authority to impeach, etc) all are helpful for the American public to have true representatives. So, when a government, elected-official puts forth a proposal to alleviate predatory lending, gentrification, etc) it's not a separate entity thinking it knows better, it's elected officials acting on the will of the people.

Neither is the solution either/or (government or individuals), but a balanced, and collective line of both. The government should not be the faucet that cures-all (and they never will be). But I can support policy that doesn't further exacerbate or oppress the powerless, and builds bridges for community's to find a way out.

On a local community level, we do, in fact, serve our poor -- both the homeless drug addict, and the single mother having a hard time getting by. As members of a Democracy, we criticize policies that are unjust, and praise policies that are just. Our government should be challenged by the same values as those to which we ourselves aspire.

Binary, over-simplistic, ignorant and even bigoted thinking isn't helpful for discussion on this topic.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Your continual use of the word "gubment" is offensive. But that's been said to you before, and you insist.

The government is not someone other than us. They are elected representatives that we elect to put into office, based on the policy they advocate. So let's not be overly-dramatic. Our government's system of checks and balances (including senate, house, legislature, supreme court, direct authority to impeach, etc) all are helpful for the American public to have true representatives. So, when a government, elected-official puts forth a proposal to alleviate predatory lending, gentrification, etc) it's not a separate entity thinking it knows better, it's elected officials acting on the will of the people.

Neither is the solution either/or (government or individuals), but a balanced, and collective line of both. The government should not be the faucet that cures-all (and they never will be). But I can support policy that doesn't further exacerbate or oppress the powerless, and builds bridges for community's to find a way out.

On a local community level, we do, in fact, serve our poor -- both the homeless drug addict, and the single mother having a hard time getting by. As members of a Democracy, we criticize policies that are unjust, and praise policies that are just. Our government should be challenged by the same values as those to which we ourselves aspire.

Binary, over-simplistic, ignorant and even bigoted thinking isn't helpful for discussion on this topic.

All hot air. You seem to insist big Gubment is the answer.

But you are unwilling and unable to explain how our gubment grew so much in the last 2.5 years and poverty and unemployment exploded.

You read too much from Soros. We can't afford massive gubment. It is offensive and threatens our national interests.

Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem. by Ronald Reagan

You want a huge gubment and you play the poverty card to push your ideology.

News flash. We have an obesity problem with the poor. Fat gubment "solves" one problem and creates a different problem that is worse.

Work can reduce obesity. You never mention work as a solution.

Who is the Moral guru that defines which policies are Just and which are unjust?

Too many shades of the social justice agenda. (revenge based)

Your leftist agenda can't explain how we justify home loans to people who closed on the loan and never made a single loan payment. Not one.

But it was gubment doing loans in the name of social justice.

[Socialite]

Keller offers three categories as the causes for poverty, namely: injustice and oppression, circumstantial calamity, and personal failure or irresponsibility. He demonstrates that while we might like to put people cleanly into one of these categories when contemplating how and when to minister to them, most of the time individuals who need help are a combination of all three.

While in recent American history there has been a fairly close alliance bewteen the church and conservative politics he offer a fair critique of political points of view on poverty. Conservatives typically see personal responsibility as the cause/cure of poverty while liberals tend to see poverty primarily as an effect of social injustice and structural inequities. His Biblical analysis points out that both are often named as causes of poverty. As Christians we ought to always be humble, and willing to provide help to the poor. Yes, slackness leads to hunger, yet “A poor man’s field may produce abundant food, but injustice sweeps it away” (Prov 13:23)
http://vimeo.com/5911393

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Your continual use of the word "gubment" is offensive. But that's been said to you before, and you insist.


Binary, over-simplistic, ignorant and even bigoted thinking isn't helpful for discussion on this topic.

Typical leftist agenda. I am accused of being ignorant and biggoted if I execercise free speech and say in public that gubment is too big and is the problem not the solution.

I can name several people I prayed for and they got hired. I see it.

The original Cloward-Piven Strategy, born in a 1966 article in The Nation magazine, was to overwhelm the welfare system by flooding the rolls with new recipients. The government would not be able to keep up (this was a time when a government could actually go bankrupt), the system would crash and a Democratic presidential administration would be “forced” to implement a “guaranteed annual income” for Americans.

http://biggovernment.com/tag/cloward-piven-strategy/

I expect to be called ignorant and bigoted if the Big Gubment folks see me make statements that I disdain. Just to place things in context. I have more economics classes from brick and mortar institutions than you, Obama and Geithner put together. Yikes.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

All hot air. You seem to insist big Gubment is the answer.

But you are unwilling and unable to explain how our gubment grew so much in the last 2.5 years and poverty and unemployment exploded.

You read too much from Soros. We can't afford massive gubment. It is offensive and threatens our national interests.



You want a huge gubment and you play the poverty card to push your ideology.

News flash. We have an obesity problem with the poor. Fat gubment "solves" one problem and creates a different problem that is worse.

Work can reduce obesity. You never mention work as a solution.

Who is the Moral guru that defines which policies are Just and which are unjust?

Too many shades of the social justice agenda. (revenge based)

Your leftist agenda can't explain how we justify home loans to people who closed on the loan and never made a single loan payment. Not one.

But it was gubment doing loans in the name of social justice.

Speaking of hot air... that's all I hear from your rotten gums. You keep stating accusations and positions that I do not take, but continue to state them over and over and over again. You have a severe disability to listen and interact. I'm not sure how much interaction you have with human beings, but I encourage you to get more.

I've never read George Soros. But again, nice Red Herring and cheap drive-by comment. In fact, about everything you've said in this post are are false labels and are truly a bunch of .........

I've never spoken against job creation, work, etc. You just keep making up assumptions and arguments

It's your same cycle. You approach this thread from a defensive posture of your politics. Your heart is cold, and you are too wrapped up in your politics, that you've lost all connection with your faith, which transcends your politics.