For those that left the UPC...

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Is this the saying based on The Fonz jumping over the shark on water skies?

Yes.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Would you elaborate on the bolded portion?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

There are ministers in the UPC now who are confronting the unsupported stands and are doing it within the confines of the UPC to promote change.

In answer to your question, those that I am finding I must at the most embrace and at the least not condemn are those that have taken differing stands in certain areas. Women wearing pants (many younger women own few if any skirts or dresses and find our unsubstantiated stand absurd), those that use moderation in adornment, and and so on. The number of scriptures that address these issues are minuscule when compared to other scriptures that command us to love those who are a part of the fellowship of Christ.

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

[ILG]

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave?

We didn't believe it anymore.

Was it difficult?

Harder than I anticipated.

Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way?

No. We settled on an evangelical church that we barely attend now.

Do you have any regrets?

Yes.

Anything you wish you had done differently?

I am not sure. I wish I knew then what I know now...before I ever joined up.

How is your walk with God now?

I feel pretty comfortable in my walk with God. I am pretty uncomfortable with church though.

Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

I have suffered from self-condemnation my whole life, before I ever got in church, but much moreso while I was in it and in the thought process of the UPC. That has lessened a lot with me, but my personality will probably always be self-condemnatory. I do not feel brainwashed. I did feel brainwashed while I was in....much more than I realized while I was in. I see more in hindsight.

Godspeed. You have some hard choices to make.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

This is the way I feel. I believe massive change will come eventually, but I am afraid of the damage that will be done in the meantime. I can already see the effects in my own children. I'm not willing to play the game any longer, and see my children harmed further.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

In answer to your question, those that I am finding I must at the most embrace and at the least not condemn are those that have taken differing stands in certain areas. Women wearing pants (many younger women own few if any skirts or dresses and find our unsubstantiated stand absurd), those that use moderation in adornment, and and so on. The number of scriptures that address these issues are minuscule when compared to other scriptures that command us to love those who are a part of the fellowship of Christ.

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

God bless you with direction, patience, and lots of love.

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait.

The above was said in response to someone "encouraging them" that there are some people higher up in the UPC trying to point out the lies they force people to suck down. I am not sure why anyone would wait??? Unless you are still drinking the Kool-aid believing it is the only church that saves. (Not saying you believe this at all)

I can see looking for the right timing to leave, but not stick around because you want to STILL stay a part of an ORGANIZATION that doesn't even recognize the Body of Christ at large. A bunch of humans taking the place of God by deciding who is and isn't going to hell by their interpretation. An organization that treats people that love God, possibly more than them, worse than a stray dog they may find on the street.

How crazy is this? Some people are staying in a church pretending they believe stuff that isn't true. They are waiting for a group of men to make a decision for the whole UPC that releases them from living a lie. For your own sake, release yourself from the lie, don't wait on a group of men to decide what the Bible says today, so they can change it again tomorrow.

Why would you want to be a part of an organization that decides for you what the Bible says and what you can and can't do? It sounds a bit like how the Catholics used to live, where only the Priest could tell them what the Bible said.

Sorry, I guess this hit a nerve today. I am missing my family that thinks I am going to hell, because I don't go to their church. Yet, I know so many that are just living a lie in that church, because they don't want to have to experience the same hell they are required to put me through.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I've been thinking lately that it's possible that God is deliberately shaking us. I've think we've become way too comfortable in our traditions. We can easily "serve God" now without ever giving God much thought!

He can't like that.

Yes, it is easy and comfortable to just follow directions and rules, much easier than having a daily relationship with God. A relationship that reflects commitment to him of the heart. He wants us to be followers of him.. and him alone. Living with the fruits of the Spirit being manifested on a daily basis is far harder than just throwing one clothes to look a part. It takes picking up your cross daily.

This is the one reason that if I could go back and change things.. it would have been that I left earlier while my girls were much younger. I believed differently, but stayed in, going along, looking the same. My girls seemed to think (although I was telling them otherwise) that to live the part meant that I truly believed to a certain extent. Even though I talked one thing, I didn't have the courage to live another. I was afraid to trust God because it was the only thing I knew.

I have spent a lot of time using scripture to change the thought process of my girls. Not to do with clothes, but the inward man and their perception of God their Father...it is not works based performance...and it never can be.

I have had my work cut out for me. I have had to dismantle distorted views and self condemnation that were put there from the time they small. I keep telling myself that I didn't know better, and even as he teaches me... I turn around teaching them.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

The above was said in response to someone "encouraging them" that there are some people higher up in the UPC trying to point out the lies they force people to suck down. I am not sure why anyone would wait??? Unless you are still drinking the Kool-aid believing it is the only church that saves. (Not saying you believe this at all)

I can see looking for the right timing to leave, but not stick around because you want to STILL stay a part of an ORGANIZATION that doesn't even recognize the Body of Christ at large. A bunch of humans taking the place of God by deciding who is and isn't going to hell by their interpretation. An organization that treats people that love God, possibly more than them, worse than a stray dog they may find on the street.

How crazy is this? Some people are staying in a church pretending they believe stuff that isn't true. They are waiting for a group of men to make a decision for the whole UPC that releases them from living a lie. For your own sake, release yourself from the lie, don't wait on a group of men to decide what the Bible says today, so they can change it again tomorrow.

Why would you want to be a part of an organization that decides for you what the Bible says and what you can and can't do? It sounds a bit like how the Catholics used to live, where only the Priest could tell them what the Bible said.

Sorry, I guess this hit a nerve today. I am missing my family that thinks I am going to hell, because I don't go to their church. Yet, I know so many that are just living a lie in that church, because they don't want to have to experience the hell they are required to put me through.

I understand and agree with you.

Sorry you are missing family. Matthew 19:29 refers to leaving family. I understand...

It goes so much further than dress standards, but that is actually what pushed me out the door at the last. The whole mentality of performance based religion and control coming down from the powers that be...whether the org or local church grieved me to the point I couldn't stay.

blessings

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

I can see looking for the right timing to leave, but not stick around because you want to STILL stay a part of an ORGANIZATION that doesn't even recognize the Body of Christ at large. A bunch of humans taking the place of God by deciding who is and isn't going to hell by their interpretation. An organization that treats people that love God, possibly more than them, worse than a stray dog they may find on the street.

Wow! You shouldn't talk about fundamentalist evangelicals like that!!!

It's posts like this that I find intolerable because it is so judgemental. You're behaving like those you condemn. You lump the entire ministry of the UPC with the few. You're painting with a brush the size of Texas!

How crazy is this? Some people are staying in a church pretending they believe stuff that isn't true. They are waiting for a group of men to make a decision for the whole UPC that releases them from living a lie. For your own sake, release yourself from the lie, don't wait on a group of men to decide what the Bible says today, so they can change it again tomorrow.

Patience is not your strong suit, is it? Waiting on God for direction is something we are to do in every situation. God's timing is the right time. And I don't believe for a minute that OTW is pretending to believe anything that isn't true.

Why would you want to be a part of an organization that decides for you what the Bible says and what you can and can't do? It sounds a bit like how the Catholics used to live, where only the Priest could tell them what the Bible said.

Come on, calm down. Every denomination has some type of articles of faith. I can't go to Dallas Theological Seminary because I could never agree with their statement of faith. I don't believe in the Trinity. I think you should write them and tell them how Catholic they are! LOL!!

No minister in the UPC is forced to sign up. They don't have guns held to their heads to become part of the "organization".

Sorry, I guess this hit a nerve today. I am missing my family that thinks I am going to hell, because I don't go to their church. Yet, I know so many that are just living a lie in that church, because they don't want to have to experience the same hell they are required to put me through.

I'm really sorry to hear this. The bitter ink you wrote this post with isn't going to help you at all. Let it go and serve God with all of your heart. Bless and forgive those who are condemning you. You know they are blinded to what God has revealed to you. Pray for them and show them much love and kindness. Be not overcome of evil but overcome evil with good.

All I got out of your post was ANGER. May God give you peace in Jesus' name.

[SeekingOne]

Thanks ForeverBlessed, I did not leave due to standards. I actually did not realize those lies until I joined this forum. I am sure my old church tells people that I never believed in "the standards" and lived a lie while I was there, but I was just as deceived as the leadership on that on.

I left due to a bunch of other delusional thinking and spiritual abuse that goes on there. It is one thing to say that Jesus comes before your family, but when a bunch people decide they ARE Jesus (come in the flesh)and therefore what the leaders say is above anything else is down right scary.