Can a oneness believer make it to Heaven... - Page 14

ManOfWord · #**131** 06-27-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

I was raised in a strict Apostolic environment and started fellowshipping with the UPC when I was 19. The non-salvational stuff made me ask this questions:
Am I saved by what I do and don't do or am I saved by grace? Am I kept saved by what I do or don't do or am I kept saved by that same grace that saved me at the beginning?

These questions led to other questions that eventually led me to see salvation, as preached by Apostolics, to be a salvation based on works, based on me doing something to achieve that precious salvation that Christ freely gives to all believers by faith (at least this what I believe right now, I can change as I am a work in progress.)

Questioning is never a bad thing. Always interpret scripture in light of the nature of God. It is not the nature of God to condemn people for less than a perfect understanding. It IS the nature of God to reward on the condition of the person's heart and their relationship with Him. Doctrine is important, but we're not going to take a doctrine test to get into heaven. There WILL be a relationship test, though! If we don't pass that one, no doctrinal understanding will mean anything at that point!

Brad Murphy · #**132** 06-27-2008, 03:03 PM

Grace covers you from the moment you receive the Holy Ghost on Sunday night, until you get home from church... after that you better have the rules memorized!

Sorry, it's 4 am here, just entertaining myself until I can go home.

stmatthew · #**133** 06-27-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

If a person really believes then there are things they will do, i gotcha there.

I doubt if any of the previous preachers I mentioned preached that salvation begins and ends at the point of initial faith.

What I'm talking about is baptism in the name of Jesus vs baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Non Apostolics usually don't baptize saying the name of Jesus Christ. Many don't seek after the promised gift of the Holy Ghost upon the confession of their faith or after they are baptized. Sadly, they never experience what we experience. Then, by virtue of what our doctrine states, these same precious believers are doomed to hell.

Doesn't anyone else see that our doctrine leads us to a very exclusionary view of salvation? No one else is saved, according to our doctrine, except the Apostolics, and even then, only some of them, depending on a whole variety of other stuff.

The two words you posted above is the key to all this. Can one believe incorrectly, and reach the desired destination? Would not an incomplete belief cause one to be incomplete in their born again experience because they missed part of the cure?

This is why I have stated that some believe that doctrine doesn't matter. Simply because some believe you can be saved without doctrine around here. It is optional.

OnTheFritz · #**134** 06-27-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

The two words you posted above is the key to all this. Can one believe incorrectly, and reach the desired destination? Would not an incomplete belief cause one to be incomplete in their born again experience because they missed part of the cure?

I don't know. Do you? What constitutes "incorrectly"? I'm not claiming to know, I'm just asking.

Jermyn Davidson · #**135** 06-27-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

This is why I have stated that some believe that doctrine doesn't matter. Simply because some believe you can be saved without doctrine around here. It is optional.

Well you have to have doctrine-- there must have some way to present the Gospel of Christ to a lost world. You have to have doctrine because the 5-fold ministry of the New Testament church is there to help the church grow into the bride Christ wants us to be-- I guess they would use direct word from the Lord or established doctrine to help us. Doctrine isn't a bad word. But there are bad doctrines.

Rico · #**136** 06-27-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerrickS

I don't know. Do you? What constitutes "incorrectly"? I'm not claiming to know, I'm just asking.

If the Book says go left, and you go right, would you agree that you is headed the wrong way?

U376977 · #**137** 06-27-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerrickS

Devil's advocate here (irony intended):

I was always taught that Trinitarians "just don't know the full truth yet" - or they don't understand... like they're illiterate idiots. Oh, they understand it. And they reject it. Go to christianforums.com sometime and get into the theology debates and watch them talk circles around you. My point is - everyone that says, "but you just need to follow Acts 2:38 -- either you do or you don't." You need to recognize that non-UPC people have SEEN that verse. They understand it, and have a different interpretation. I'm not saying it's right, but as with all of this standards talk, you'd better hope you have the rest of the Bible backing up your single-verse doctrine.

Good Brother, I have debated many Trinnies and they do not talk "circles" around me. I agree with your point that many Trinitarians understand the Trinity doctrine and understand the Oneness position. And they reject Oneness. And it is true that some OP do not know scripture beyone Ac. 2:38 to defend our postition on the Godhead. BUT because SOME do not excell past Ac. 2:38 does not mean that ALL are ignorant. We do not have "single-verse doctrine." The oneness of God is across the whole of the Word as compared to the Trinity not being in the Word AT ALL.

Brad Murphy · #**138** 06-27-2008, 03:38 PM

I thought that neither the word "trinity" NOR the word "oneness" were in the Bible...

Ron · #**139** 06-27-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

I thought that neither the word "trinity" NOR the word "oneness" were in the Bible...

The word "One" is!!

OnTheFritz · #**140** 06-27-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U376977

Good Brother, I have debated many Trinnies and they do not talk "circles" around me. I agree with your point that many Trinitarians understand the Trinity doctrine and understand the Oneness position. And they reject Oneness. And it is true that some OP do not know scripture beyone Ac. 2:38 to defend our postition on the Godhead. BUT because SOME do not excell past Ac. 2:38 does not mean that ALL are ignorant. We do not have "single-verse doctrine." The oneness of God is across the whole of the Word as compared to the Trinity not being in the Word AT ALL.

Agreed. I realize that not all are ignorant by any means, and I didn't mean to imply that they would talk circles around you

. I do disagree with your last statement about the one vs three concept in the Bible. I think there is plenty of reference to the "threeness" if you will - at least enough to make one wonder why any separation is mentioned in there at all. We all see what we want to see. I see oneness, but I'm just sayin'.......