Should standards be an issue when witnessing?

[deltaguitar]

Really, if I was UPC what I would do is never mention standards to a new convert. I would tell them that they are saved by faith and that all God wants is for them to be a part of the body of Christ.

Then when they are really connected to the church and love being a part of the family I would ask them if they wanted to be a part of ministry. You know something like a solo in the choir or maybe teach Sunday school. When they become excited about being able to help out I would "reluctantly" give them a booklet of "platform" guidelines.

They would either conform and become a sold out UPCer or they would leave and never come back. They might actually conform for a few years until they realized they couldn't live that way. They would probably backslide and give up on God completely until the local Baptist church showed them the love of Christ and accepted them for who they are. Of course by then they have a wrecked life and have completely destroyed all the potential they had to be a good witness for God.



Yep, this is how I would do it, if I had to teach standards. I thank God everyday that he has delivered me from that.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Where have you been Coop, I'm out here all by myself! Ha

I am here my friend

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

perverse spirits? a little strong don't you think? just because I enjoy a good intellectual spar doesn't make one perverse. God bless you, I enjoyed the conversation.

You know I have been sitting here thinking and I decided I wanted to share a little more with you, for some reason. And it may cost me, because there are people on this board who know who I am. And we all know how the lurkers like to cause problems.

You are obviously making the assumption that I am a "standard abiding" conservative apostolic. Well, I am and I'm not.

By which I mean, I attend what you would consider a conservative UPC church. I, for the most part abide by the "standards" of this church. The not part is, do I believe them? Mostly no. Why do I follow them? Mostly out of respect and honor. It doesn't bother me at this point in time to follow them, if there ever comes a point in time that it does, I will move on.

Why do I stay? Because I am receiving the best pastoral ministry and instruction that I have ever received in my life. I'm talking about the real stuff, the spirit and heart stuff, the things that matter. And I am surrounded for the most part by Godly, loving, CHRISTIAN people. Yes, there are idiots in this church. If you ever find that church that is idiot free, please notify me immediately.

This is a vibrant, happy church, with an amazing outreach ministry, awesome children's and youth ministries. My daughter is flourishing and happy here.

And when I hear people like you degenerate conservative apostolics, and bunch them all together, it almost pushes me back the other way. The same way I feel when I hear someone who is ultra-conservative making stupid blanket statements.

So there it is. I understand your feelings and beliefs, but I dislike your message and how you present it.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Really, if I was UPC what I would do is never mention standards to a new convert. I would tell them that they are saved by faith and that all God wants is for them to be a part of the body of Christ.

Then when they are really connected to the church and love being a part of the family I would ask them if they wanted to be a part of ministry. You know something like a solo in the choir or maybe teach Sunday school. When they become excited about being able to help out I would "reluctantly" give them a booklet of "platform" guidelines.

They would either conform and become a sold out UPCer or they would leave and never come back. They might actually conform for a few years until they realized they couldn't live that way. They would probably backslide and give up on God completely until the local Baptist church showed them the love of Christ and accepted them for who they are. Of course by then they have a wrecked life and have completely destroyed all the potential they had to be a good witness for God.



Yep, this is how I would do it, if I had to teach standards. I thank God everyday that he has delivered me from that.

Aint that the TRUTH!!!!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by staysharp

View Post

The reason I agree with LadyChocolate is because I believe she if following Paul's example in Romans 14. Yes, there are those who follow the example of those who Paul condemned in 1 Tim 4, but they are not representative of ALL apostolics which is the what we are understanding you to say.

When did I say "all apostolics"?

You implied it with some of the things you have said because you don't qualify your remarks.

For starters go back and reread the post that you wrote that ticked off LadyChocolate enough to respond to you because you offended her by lumping her in with those who are proud because of the standards they keep and those who have a holier than thou attitude. LadyChocolate had to set you straight that not ALL who hold standards are proud or condemning of others who don't.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...7&postcount=79

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

You know I have been sitting here thinking and I decided I wanted to share a little more with you, for some reason. And it may cost me, because there are people on this board who know who I am. And we all know how the lurkers like to cause problems.

You are obviously making the assumption that I am a "standard abiding" conservative apostolic. Well, I am and I'm not.

By which I mean, I attend what you would consider a conservative UPC church. I, for the most part abide by the "standards" of this church. The not part is, do I believe them? Mostly no. Why do I follow them? Mostly out of respect and honor. It doesn't bother me at this point in time to follow them, if there ever comes a point in time that it does, I will move on.

Why do I stay? Because I am receiving the best pastoral ministry and instruction that I have ever received in my life. I'm talking about the real stuff, the spirit and heart stuff, the things that matter. And I am surrounded for the most part by Godly, loving, CHRISTIAN people. Yes, there are idiots in this church. If you ever find that church that is idiot free, please notify me immediately.

This is a vibrant, happy church, with an amazing outreach ministry, awesome children's and youth ministries. My daughter is flourishing and happy here.

And when I hear people like you degenerate conservative apostolics, and bunch them all together, it almost pushes me back the other way. The same way I feel when I hear someone who is ultra-conservative making stupid blanket statements.

So there it is. I understand your feelings and beliefs, but I dislike your message and how you present it.

I can understand this. I wouldn't have left the UPC if I had not been forced out by a bunch of crazy folks. I fully expected to be UPC for the rest of my life.

Now, the thing that really bothers me is that I didn't see how distructive our church really was or the amazing relief that I feel now that I am out. I never realized life could be this good. Another point is that during our split all of my friends and mentors came with us. I would have never left those I was close to behind just for standards. I don't mind standards as long as folks aren't being told lies.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Only when witnessing at a nude beach!

Do you do this very often? Do you really think it's a good idea?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

You know I have been sitting here thinking and I decided I wanted to share a little more with you, for some reason. And it may cost me, because there are people on this board who know who I am. And we all know how the lurkers like to cause problems.

You are obviously making the assumption that I am a "standard abiding" conservative apostolic. Well, I am and I'm not.

By which I mean, I attend what you would consider a conservative UPC church. I, for the most part abide by the "standards" of this church. The not part is, do I believe them? Mostly no. Why do I follow them? Mostly out of respect and honor. It doesn't bother me at this point in time to follow them, if there ever comes a point in time that it does, I will move on.

Why do I stay? Because I am receiving the best pastoral ministry and instruction that I have ever received in my life. I'm talking about the real stuff, the spirit and heart stuff, the things that matter. And I am surrounded for the most part by Godly, loving, CHRISTIAN people. Yes, there are idiots in this church. If you ever find that church that is idiot free, please notify me immediately.

This is a vibrant, happy church, with an amazing outreach ministry, awesome children's and youth ministries. My daughter is flourishing and happy here.

And when I hear people like you degenerate conservative apostolics, and bunch them all together, it almost pushes me back the other way. The same way I feel when I hear someone who is ultra-conservative making stupid blanket statements.

So there it is. I understand your feelings and beliefs, but I dislike your message and how you present it.

Sorry if I offended you. My remarks were intended to inform, not offend. Having said that, I'm glad you found a great church. You made a trade off. You conform because your'e being fed. Which I have no problem with. As long as you are honest as you are. My original thread was on honesty and how the lies destroy our children. Evidently, the original intent was lost in the translation.

God bless you, may God give you great joy and may the prince of peace dwell in your heart.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I can understand this. I wouldn't have left the UPC if I had not been forced out by a bunch of crazy folks. I fully expected to be UPC for the rest of my life.

Now, the thing that really bothers me is that I didn't see how distructive our church really was or the amazing relief that I feel now that I am out. I never realized life could be this good. Another point is that during our split all of my friends and mentors came with us. I would have never left those I was close to behind just for standards. I don't mind standards as long as folks aren't being told lies.

I can deal with this. I understand what you are saying. I just don't understand why some people who leave are so bitter and angry. I get that some people have been severely mistreated and it is wrong. But do you honestly believe that we have the corner market on nut-jobs? They are out there in every religion. The thing is, I have family members who have gone completely "charismatic", and they love to moan about how "wrong they been done". One of them actually wrote a book about it. I'm sorry, but I was there. Had a front row seat. The only ones who had bad attitudes and bad spirits were them. Anyway...

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You implied it with some of the things you have said because you don't qualify your remarks.

For starters go back and reread the post that you wrote that ticked off LadyChocolate enough to respond to you because you offended her by lumping her in with those who are proud because of the standards they keep and those who have a holier than thou attitude. LadyChocolate had to set you straight that not ALL who hold standards are proud or condemning of others who don't.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...7&postcount=79

I reread and still don't see what you are talking about. That post was talking to Rhoni, not LadyChocolate. I honestly don't see any remark that lumped her in anything. She was not in the conversation. At no time do I mention 'all apostolics".