Tithing…Is it a command?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Indeed...

You would think I didn't go to school they way I butchered that post.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

You would think I didn't go to school they way I butchered that post.

Just do like me... learn how to spell one word well and place 3 dots after it. LOL

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by notforsale

the perecentage issue can only be described by experience.

I want to ask the question; those who debate this, wondering about it's meaning (0-100%), have you been involved in missions work and its birthing process, enduring this process to completion?

Have you sold, given, and been to the bottom for his cause ever in your life? Home and foreign missionaries understand this in ways that only come by experience. In other words, talk is cheap.

If you haven't been there, you may go in circles with this and never understand others who try to describe this type of commitment. The tears, the finances, the patience, the rejection, the storms of lonliness and despair, the sleepless nights; words aren't enough.

If you want to know my burden here, leave your family, friends, securities, big church, everything, and go to a mission work to labor with a lonely pastor who is on his knees pleading for someone to help him. This will change you in in ways you'll never know until you, "get thee out of thy country".

God bless, nfs

a big amen!

[rava61]

The problem is 'your bucket has holes in it'. The system of tithing was established for the Jews, and the commandments of tithing was always directed to the Jews; so, you really do not have a lot to go on in the New Testement. Even the common verse in Malachi that most pastors like to use to guilt people into tithing is directed to the Jews - it's extremely important to look at who is being talked.

If a person chooses to tithe then it becomes a voluntarly 'offering' and is acceptable to God; however, if a person tithes only because they are guilted into it then it is not acceptable to God. Here's another problem that I see: if God does not accept the tithing or offereing due to attitude, then why does the 'Pastor' feel he has the right to accept it anyway?

RV

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by rava61

The problem is 'your bucket has holes in it'. The system of tithing was established for the Jews, and the commandments of tithing was always directed to the Jews; so, you really do not have a lot to go on in the New Testement. Even the common verse in Malachi that most pastors like to use to guilt people into tithing is directed to the Jews - it's extremely important to look at who is being talked.

Well, Hmmmm, what can one say? I guess you toss the whole Old Testament and a good portion of the New, you ought to try the Korah you may like it better of course I presume it was written to Arabs

[Neck]

How about we start a running list of all the ways we are asked for money.

Much of which has nothing to do with tithing.

Also what is amazing to me is how all the strories in the old Test are now fables to be preached on how if you give money.

The Lord will bring you victory...

Here is a start to the list:

1. Money
2. Tithing
3. Offerings
4. Sowing
5. Alms
6. Prosperity
7. Kingdom advancement
8. God's economy
9. 100 fold
10. Storefront

[alanhosch]

The idea that the New Testament church didn't tithe just because the New Testament doesn't mention a commandment to tithe (and I would argue that point) is preposterous. The principle of tithing is PRE-LAW.

In Hebrews 7, Paul (the probable writer of Hebrews) mentions that Levi received and paid tithes in Abraham before he was born. Genesis 14 states plainly that Abraham, who we all know wasn't under the law, because he lived before the law, recognized the need to tithe to Melchisedek.

The principle of tithing is a law unto itself. Those that follow that principle will understand that the Biblical promises and blessings of financial sustenance are only for those who are righteous according to the Word of God. In other words, those who do not tithe will not be blessed, sustained, or provided for by God in the same way as those who do tithe. Furthermore, if a person who knows of and is convicted of the principle of tithing and ignores it is guilty of the sin of disobedience and is willfully (Hebrews 10:18-26; James 4:17) 'robbing God' (Malachi 3:8-10, one of those outdated and supposedly non-binding prophecies of the Old Testament).

The times that Paul and other epistle writers mention tithing by default along with the subject of giving are too numerous to mention. Here are a few that obviously show that I believe the New Testament churches were tithing.

Matthew 10:10 is a scripture dealing with the concept of the disciples of Jesus going forth to do His service in Israel living off provision of the people to whom they were ministering. This was pre-church, however, Jesus' commandments for how to sustain ministry were taught by Paul as commandments. Paul even referenced the Law of Moses when giving commandments about financially sustaining the ministry.

1 Cor. 16:1-3 deals specifically with Paul's commandment to tithe as evidenced by several words and phrases, including: 'first day of the week' signifying the Old Testament concept of giving and tithing to God first, before other bills are paid (the only way tithing will work, incidentally); 'lay by him in store' shows us that we are to not let anything touch the money (this is because tithing is not only in obedience to God's financial system - to which non-tithers do not belong - but it is a form of worship as all of our money is God's, the tithe or the FIRST tenth is only our release unto God of 10% of what is already his) and we are to set aside the tithe; 'as God hath prospered him' clearly means that this partcular collection was dealing with weekly tithing associated with income (tithing is of the increase - whatever comes in not whatever is left over); and finally, verse 3 shows us that Paul was to 'send' for the money to be delivered to Jerusalem, this statement, above all, shows that the money was intended for the administration of the various needs of the ministry council (Galatians 1:17).

James 5:1-4 is a prophetic writing by James dealing with the collection of tithes for the service of the ministry.

In my experience, those who despise tithing usually evangelize to that end. Sometimes, their misunderstanding of this Biblical concept is based upon jealousy. This is sometimes caused by ministers being perceived as living too prosperously on the income of their respective churches. Many don't understand that tithing is literally given to God, not to the ministry. God, not man, has provided this for the ministry. Once it leaves our hands, we have obeyed, we are not to worry about the use of that money (exempted are, of course, church boards which give a pastoral salary, however, this is a totally different issue).

Other times, misunderstanding tithing is simply caused by a heart that simply refuses to believe that God will honor the vaccuum caused by the release of the first tenth. So many people just don't trust God to be faithful today, like He was for so many men and women of old.

This is why God challenges us today as He did in Malachi. Try Him. He can change your life through tithing. I don't mean by financial prosperity, though it is a given that God's righteous ones will prosper in many ways. There is a peace when one begins to obey God's commands. The Spirit causes a tither to become a giver. Then a giver becomes a generous person. This generous person then loses all signs of materialism. The person freed from worldly materialism then moves into a deeper friendship with God. A friendship which cares nothing for money or fleeting prosperity, but doing God's Will on the Earth.

It works.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Neck

How about we start a running list of all the ways we are asked for money.

Much of which has nothing to do with tithing.

Also what is amazing to me is how all the strories in the old Test are now fables to be preached on how if you give money.

The Lord will bring you victory...

Here is a start to the list:

1. Money
2. Tithing
3. Offerings
4. Sowing
5. Alms
6. Prosperity
7. Kingdom advancement
8. God's economy
9. 100 fold
10. Storefront

Why don't you also include, when God established giving, all the ways He wanted?

1. Wave offering
2. Heave offering
3. Sin offering
4. Construction/repairs of the temple offering
5. Tithe
6. Firstfruits (although some call this the tithe it is listed separately)

and that is just off the top of my head, there are many more

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by alanhosch

The idea that the New Testament church didn't tithe just because the New Testament doesn't mention a commandment to tithe (and I would argue that point) is preposterous. The principle of tithing is PRE-LAW.

In Hebrews 7, Paul (the probable writer of Hebrews) mentions that Levi received and paid tithes in Abraham before he was born. Genesis 14 states plainly that Abraham, who we all know wasn't under the law, because he lived before the law, recognized the need to tithe to Melchisedek.

The principle of tithing is a law unto itself. Those that follow that principle will understand that the Biblical promises and blessings of financial sustenance are only for those who are righteous according to the Word of God. In other words, those who do not tithe will not be blessed, sustained, or provided for by God in the same way as those who do tithe. Furthermore, if a person who knows of and is convicted of the principle of tithing and ignores it is guilty of the sin of disobedience and is willfully (Hebrews 10:18-26; James 4:17) 'robbing God' (Malachi 3:8-10, one of those outdated and supposedly non-binding prophecies of the Old Testament).

The times that Paul and other epistle writers mention tithing by default along with the subject of giving are too numerous to mention. Here are a few that obviously show that I believe the New Testament churches were tithing.

Matthew 10:10 is a scripture dealing with the concept of the disciples of Jesus going forth to do His service in Israel living off provision of the people to whom they were ministering. This was pre-church, however, Jesus' commandments for how to sustain ministry were taught by Paul as commandments. Paul even referenced the Law of Moses when giving commandments about financially sustaining the ministry.

1 Cor. 16:1-3 deals specifically with Paul's commandment to tithe as evidenced by several words and phrases, including: 'first day of the week' signifying the Old Testament concept of giving and tithing to God first, before other bills are paid (the only way tithing will work, incidentally); 'lay by him in store' shows us that we are to not let anything touch the money (this is because tithing is not only in obedience to God's financial system - to which non-tithers do not belong - but it is a form of worship as all of our money is God's, the tithe or the FIRST tenth is only our release unto God of 10% of what is already his) and we are to set aside the tithe; 'as God hath prospered him' clearly means that this partcular collection was dealing with weekly tithing associated with income (tithing is of the increase - whatever comes in not whatever is left over); and finally, verse 3 shows us that Paul was to 'send' for the money to be delivered to Jerusalem, this statement, above all, shows that the money was intended for the administration of the various needs of the ministry council (Galatians 1:17).

James 5:1-4 is a prophetic writing by James dealing with the collection of tithes for the service of the ministry.

In my experience, those who despise tithing usually evangelize to that end. Sometimes, their misunderstanding of this Biblical concept is based upon jealousy. This is sometimes caused by ministers being perceived as living too prosperously on the income of their respective churches. Many don't understand that tithing is literally given to God, not to the ministry. God, not man, has provided this for the ministry. Once it leaves our hands, we have obeyed, we are not to worry about the use of that money (exempted are, of course, church boards which give a pastoral salary, however, this is a totally different issue).

Other times, misunderstanding tithing is simply caused by a heart that simply refuses to believe that God will honor the vaccuum caused by the release of the first tenth. So many people just don't trust God to be faithful today, like He was for so many men and women of old.

This is why God challenges us today as He did in Malachi. Try Him. He can change your life through tithing. I don't mean by financial prosperity, though it is a given that God's righteous ones will prosper in many ways. There is a peace when one begins to obey God's commands. The Spirit causes a tither to become a giver. Then a giver becomes a generous person. This generous person then loses all signs of materialism. The person freed from worldly materialism then moves into a deeper friendship with God. A friendship which cares nothing for money or fleeting prosperity, but doing God's Will on the Earth.

It works.

Wow... my arms are sore from reading all those stretches.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by alanhosch

The idea that the New Testament church didn't tithe just because the New Testament doesn't mention a commandment to tithe (and I would argue that point) is preposterous. The principle of tithing is PRE-LAW.

In Hebrews 7, Paul (the probable writer of Hebrews) mentions that Levi received and paid tithes in Abraham before he was born. Genesis 14 states plainly that Abraham, who we all know wasn't under the law, because he lived before the law, recognized the need to tithe to Melchisedek.

The principle of tithing is a law unto itself. Those that follow that principle will understand that the Biblical promises and blessings of financial sustenance are only for those who are righteous according to the Word of God. In other words, those who do not tithe will not be blessed, sustained, or provided for by God in the same way as those who do tithe. Furthermore, if a person who knows of and is convicted of the principle of tithing and ignores it is guilty of the sin of disobedience and is willfully (Hebrews 10:18-26; James 4:17) 'robbing God' (Malachi 3:8-10, one of those outdated and supposedly non-binding prophecies of the Old Testament).

The times that Paul and other epistle writers mention tithing by default along with the subject of giving are too numerous to mention. Here are a few that obviously show that I believe the New Testament churches were tithing.

Matthew 10:10 is a scripture dealing with the concept of the disciples of Jesus going forth to do His service in Israel living off provision of the people to whom they were ministering. This was pre-church, however, Jesus' commandments for how to sustain ministry were taught by Paul as commandments. Paul even referenced the Law of Moses when giving commandments about financially sustaining the ministry.

1 Cor. 16:1-3 deals specifically with Paul's commandment to tithe as evidenced by several words and phrases, including: 'first day of the week' signifying the Old Testament concept of giving and tithing to God first, before other bills are paid (the only way tithing will work, incidentally); 'lay by him in store' shows us that we are to not let anything touch the money (this is because tithing is not only in obedience to God's financial system - to which non-tithers do not belong - but it is a form of worship as all of our money is God's, the tithe or the FIRST tenth is only our release unto God of 10% of what is already his) and we are to set aside the tithe; 'as God hath prospered him' clearly means that this partcular collection was dealing with weekly tithing associated with income (tithing is of the increase - whatever comes in not whatever is left over); and finally, verse 3 shows us that Paul was to 'send' for the money to be delivered to Jerusalem, this statement, above all, shows that the money was intended for the administration of the various needs of the ministry council (Galatians 1:17).

James 5:1-4 is a prophetic writing by James dealing with the collection of tithes for the service of the ministry.

In my experience, those who despise tithing usually evangelize to that end. Sometimes, their misunderstanding of this Biblical concept is based upon jealousy. This is sometimes caused by ministers being perceived as living too prosperously on the income of their respective churches. Many don't understand that tithing is literally given to God, not to the ministry. God, not man, has provided this for the ministry. Once it leaves our hands, we have obeyed, we are not to worry about the use of that money (exempted are, of course, church boards which give a pastoral salary, however, this is a totally different issue).

Other times, misunderstanding tithing is simply caused by a heart that simply refuses to believe that God will honor the vaccuum caused by the release of the first tenth. So many people just don't trust God to be faithful today, like He was for so many men and women of old.

This is why God challenges us today as He did in Malachi. Try Him. He can change your life through tithing. I don't mean by financial prosperity, though it is a given that God's righteous ones will prosper in many ways. There is a peace when one begins to obey God's commands. The Spirit causes a tither to become a giver. Then a giver becomes a generous person. This generous person then loses all signs of materialism. The person freed from worldly materialism then moves into a deeper friendship with God. A friendship which cares nothing for money or fleeting prosperity, but doing God's Will on the Earth.

It works.

Great post!!!!

I am a hard core believer in the tithe and very versed on the subject...even so your post brought more faith to me, praise God! (Rom 10:17).