Anyone see a fundamental problem with the two bolded statements above?
Minister_WD, I'm certainly not saying you're not telling the truth, in fact, I believe you. I'm just a bit concerned when I hear that a church is telling their pastor what he CAN or CANNOT do.
Seeing as the congregation is usually affected by a pastor's actions, I think they should have quite a bit of input.
Think about it: Camps, fellowship meetings, conferences, bible quizzing, etc etc etc.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
MP, having been very close to a situation where a pastor was attempting to pull out of the UPCI moving in the opposite direction (very liberal), I can tell you that a church that has a long history with an organization, has every right to look the pastor in the eye and tell him he can go but the church wont.
Both of these churches have been in the UPCI longer than the current pastor has been alive if i am not mistaken.
I understand what you're saying, but for all the chest thumping that we do about not having the church (laity) govern the pastor (ministry), it seems a bit Laodicean to me.
First off, I don't agree with the pastor trying to lead an established church in any extreme direction - I would resign before I'd do that.
However, I guess the wording of the statements "the church will not LET the pastor" just rubbed me the wrong way.
Your point is duly noted.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
Anyone see a fundamental problem with the two bolded statements above?
Minister_WD, I'm certainly not saying you're not telling the truth, in fact, I believe you. I'm just a bit concerned when I hear that a church is telling their pastor what he CAN or CANNOT do.
Not to pick a fight with you my friend, but the pastor is the servant of those people. If he doesn't like what "he's being told to do" he can git out and find a more agreeable bunch to hang with.
These people have, no doubt, invested a lot of their finances, talent and their very lives into the respective churches. It's kind of hard when some preacher's squabble spills over and tells you that your kids can't practice Bible quizzing with their cousins in the next county. If it comes down to that, then the preachers need to move on. The saints are "the church," after all (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Ephesians 1:1; and etc.).
Not to pick a fight with you my friend, but the pastor is the servant of those people. If he doesn't like what "he's being told to do" he can git out and find a more agreeable bunch to hang with.
These people have, no doubt, invested a lot of their finances, talent and their very lives into the respective churches. It's kind of hard when some preacher's squabble spills over and tells you that your kids can't practice Bible quizzing with their cousins in the next county. If it comes down to that, then the preachers need to move on. The saints are "the church," after all (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Ephesians 1:1; and etc.).
Really?
So, you would just make the pastor a hireling? Meeting the wants and desires of the people? Don't ruffle any feathers, etc........
Sorry, can't find scripture for that.
Now, I'll agree that that opposite extreme is also unscriptural - being lords over God's heritage.
But, if I remember, the great Apostle Paul had some strong teaching about the saints not controlling the pastor......
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I understand what you're saying, but for all the chest thumping that we do about not having the church (laity) govern the pastor (ministry), it seems a bit Laodicean to me.
First off, I don't agree with the pastor trying to lead an established church in any extreme direction - I would resign before I'd do that.
However, I guess the wording of the statements "the church will not LET the pastor" just rubbed me the wrong way.
Your point is duly noted.
I agree Bro Phelps....but is trying to have fellowship that still stands for something extreme???
what about allthis hype UPC , tulsa & independent. i think god cares more about doing right , LIVING RIGHT, AS LONG AS YOU PREACH TRUTH . HE DOES NOT CARE WHAT ORG. YOU IN IF ANY. PEOPLE ACT LIKE IF YOU ARE NOT WITH THIS GROUP ARE THE OTHER GROUP THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU . THE LORD SAYS HIS PEOPLE ARE LIKE CHILDERN .LET THE OTHRES ALONE ALONE & LIVE FOR GOD. it IS NOT ABOUT THE LARGEST ORG. ARE GROUP OF INDEP. WINN SOULS PREACH TRUTH & TREAT EVERYONE THE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED PEOPLE NEED TO STOP WORSHIPING ORG. & WORSHIP THE LORD!!!!!!!!!
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