Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Sean

You just said that God mediates unto himself.

That is not at all what he said. Lying lips are an abomination unto the Lord.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But God is not human. God manifests his single person using humanity as mediator, and that manifestation is so thorough and real that such a manifestation can actually mediate between God and man.

Aka...He mediates to Himself

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Sean

No, God filled a human mediator to give YOU someone to get forgiveness today.

Go ahead, ignore your mediator as if he does not exist.....


http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...postcount=1340


Your choice.

Jehovah said there no gods beside Him, with Him, before Him, or after Him. None are, and none shall be formed.

If then you teach that Jesus became a god, then you are a liar, heretic, and false teacher on your way to a lake of fire, along with anyone who follows your doctrine. If you teach Jesus "is God, but not God/YHVH/the Father", then you are either a trinitarian or a polytheistic idolater.

The BIBLE says only One is God. There is only ONE Jehovah. And only ONE GOD. And the BIBLE says Jesus, the man, the mediator, is nevertheless GOD, the Mighty God, the Everlasting FATHER. How?

Because He is "God manifest in flesh". Because "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD... AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Aka...He mediates to Himself

You cannot go without limiting God.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Jehovah said there no gods beside Him, with Him, before Him, or after Him. None are, and none shall be formed.

If then you teach that Jesus became a god, then you are a liar, heretic, and false teacher on your way to a lake of fire, along with anyone who follows your doctrine. If you teach Jesus "is God, but not God/YHVH/the Father", then you are either a trinitarian or a polytheistic idolater.

The BIBLE says only One is God. There is only ONE Jehovah. And only ONE GOD. And the BIBLE says Jesus, the man, the mediator, is nevertheless GOD, the Mighty God, the Everlasting FATHER. How?

Because He is "God manifest in flesh". Because "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD... AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH."

So God is a liar for fully indwelling His only begotten son, bodily?

God is a liar for speaking to the world THROUGH His son like he did with the prophets?

For some reason, you keep thinking Jesus is a separate deity and not a glorified human.

[Sean]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten SELF, that whosoever believeth in HIMSELF(God) should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Huh?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

So God is a liar for fully indwelling His only begotten son, bodily?

God is a liar for speaking to the world THROUGH His son like he did with the prophets?

For some reason, you keep thinking Jesus is a separate deity and not a glorified human.

You really need to read the Book of Hebrews.

Actually, you really need to read the Bible.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Jehovah said there no gods beside Him, with Him, before Him, or after Him. None are, and none shall be formed.

If then you teach that Jesus became a god, then you are a liar, heretic, and false teacher on your way to a lake of fire, along with anyone who follows your doctrine. If you teach Jesus "is God, but not God/YHVH/the Father", then you are either a trinitarian or a polytheistic idolater.

The BIBLE says only One is God. There is only ONE Jehovah. And only ONE GOD. And the BIBLE says Jesus, the man, the mediator, is nevertheless GOD, the Mighty God, the Everlasting FATHER. How?

Because He is "God manifest in flesh". Because "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD... AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH."

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

You really need to read the Book of Hebrews.

Actually, you really need to read the Bible.

I have been reading Hebrews, and this is what I notice.....


....and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant


The writer of Hebrews really did not understand modern oneness concepts, huh?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sean

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten SELF, that whosoever believeth in HIMSELF(God) should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Huh?

Sean, Sean, Sean, my of my how you do err not knowing the scriptures.

The "begotten" was the Logos of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word [Logos], and the Word [Logos] was with God, and the Word [Logos] was God.

This "Logos" is equivalent to saying "the expressed perfect plan' of God".

John 1:14 And the Word [Logos] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Thus, God's "expressed perfect plan" was made "flesh" which revealed God's "glory" to man ("dwelt among us").

And since John 1:1 declared God is His Logos ("the Word was God"), and John 1:14 declared "the word (Logos) was made Flesh", and since this creation was the "glory of God", then Jesus was not a man infilled with the "fulness of the Godhead" some mysterious time after His resurrection, which thus making Him into another god" (like you erroneously believe), but rather, when Jesus was born into this world, He WAS God robbed in a flesh and blood body like all other men's bodies.

God walking in flesh among His creation is what these verses speak of:

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

A man having flesh and blood body like all other men would not be anything special to write about. Therefore, these verses speak of something uniquely special--something like the Almighty God being a "partaker" of a "flesh and blood" body that is made "like unto his brethren" so that through "death he (God in that flesh and blood body {Logos made flesh}) might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

This is extraordinary flesh and blood body is what allows the gospel to become a reality. It is the foundation of the New Covenant. This truth (God's expressed perfect plan--His Logos--being God in the flesh) is why Jesus said, "you must believe 'I am He, or you will 'die in your sins.'"

Look at the context in which this is found:

John 8:19-32
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also"? "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world"? Jesus was asked about where they could find the "Father" Jesus said you don't know Him because you don't know Me. Then Jesus declared He his origin was from "above" and "not of this world." So, Jesus is either saying He is not the Father but another Diety who lived with the Father in eternity before His birth, or He is lying about being the Father and about His Heavenly origin, or He is speaking of the same origins as John did, which is the Father being made "flesh" ("In the beginning was the Word" [the Logos], and "the Word was God"). Since I know the Bible declares there is no other God but One, and since I do not believe Jesus is a liar, then I chose to believe Jesus spoke of being God's Logos that was made flesh, thus filling all said of Him in John 1:1 and John 1:14.

We see more evidence of this as we read further.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

What did Jesus say to them? He spoke exclusively of God's plan--His LOGOS.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

Here the Apostle John adds one of his famous--God inspired--commentaries.

"HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER."

And what exactly did Jesus say to them that they did not perceive was speaking of "the Father"? Well, Jesus had just told them this vitally important truth: "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". "I am HE"?? "Spake of THE FATHER"?? Even Common Core Math could add that up to mean Jesus was saying He is "THE FATHER", which, as John said, is "the Word/Logos" that was "made flesh" a.k.a Jesus.

Keep reading because there more evidence that this is true.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

"THEN" you will see "I AM HE"??

Who was it again John said those hearers missed seeing? Look at it again: "HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER." So, they did not see Jesus was the Father. Then Jesus said this would be known after His crucifixion. John added the fact He "spake to them of the Father" sometime after Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. So, John saw writing from the clarity of that vantage point. No wonder Jesus revealing the wounds of His crucifixion lead Thomas to proclaim Him his "Lord" and his "God." (John 20:28) Thus, Jesus' true disciples would see His gospel work as proof that He is "THE FATHER."

What was this Logos that "was God" and that was "made flesh" purposed to do? He was to "walk" among men and women to so they could see the "glory of God." This "glory" wasn't a blinding light that no man could look at. No, it was something that man could see (believe), which would bring God Glory. No one fits this description like Jesus (see John 9:3, John 11:4, John 11:40).

Jesus declared Himself to be the "TRUTH" of God that could be known ("made flesh" in a body " like His brethren" to reveal God's "glory")

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

What is "MY WORD"? The same "WORD" (Logo expressed perfect plan) that was "with God" and that "was God" from the beginning. This was then "made flesh." And as a man or woman continues in that "word/truth" it continues to make them "free."

Jesus spoke only that which was given Him from His Father, not because He only spoke what He heard, but rather, He spoke only of that which He consisted--the Logos--the expressed perfect plan of God.

Jesus attached a caution to this promise of freedom, He said: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." In the context of John 8:19-32, "If" and "then" means IF a person believes He is that "LOGOS made FLESH", and obey's the "perfect plan" of this "LOGOS made FLESH", THEN--and only then--are they His disciples, which allows them access to the LOGOS/TRUTH that continues to "make them free."

Sean, this is so simple that only a Trinitarian like yourself could get it wrong. So, let's see what you do with it...