Tithing…Is it a command?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

I just read this. Thank you. I will think on it...


Truth is, I feel I am scripturally accountable to respond to this recent service on Thieves in the Church. I either need to amen him like many others, or “pull my sword”, in attempt to shed light on the scriptures. I’m just trying to do my homework before I do anything.
The night of the service, I was awake almost the entire night bent out of shape.
It puts me in quite the quandary.
We give offerings in the offering basket, yet also other places outside the local church too.
Church bldg is paid for, plus a small shopping center, plus 4 house rentals, paid for from church offerings. Pastoring owns 10 rental houses himself.

Whatever I do to deal w it, I want to be entirely respectful, yet prove by the scriptures why i I cannot go along.

Deal is, like many others, they have built this mindset, that the church today is a type and shadow of the ot temple, in which it is pictured painted out like this:
The bldg is the house of God, where the sacrifice(Now of praise instead of animals) is made. It is holy ground, just like Bethel, because this is the PLACE where God meets us, when we “USHER in his presence. The pastor takes the place of the Levites, receiving a tithe from the people Now. Type and shadow. It’s the perfect picture, and many, especially old school, cheer him on.
Makes me think of where in the Old Testament they said give us a king to rule over us, but that was not Gods intent. Im not sure exactly how all to tear down the painted type/shadow picture of the “system”, holy ground house of God and tithe thing. It runs deep in their mind, and heart.

I have a lot invested in this. All my friends belong to this. All my children’s friends belong to this. I grew up w this. I and my wife have ministry in this.
But the thought of listening to one more sentence from the pulpit almost makes me want to throw up. No kidding.

He even mentioned in that service, and evangelist it came through a while back that he was bragging on, in relation to teaching on the tithe. One thing I recall when the evangelist was here, he said that everyone who had not been tithing not only needs to start tilthing, but backpay all the tithe money that they had not paid since they were born again, even if it was a decade ago.

You could just give whatever moneys you felt comfortable giving, and leave it at that.

[Tithesmeister]

[QUOTE=JamesGlen;1546231]I’m not intentionally being hard headed, ftr, but I am trying to learn this. I’ll have to find some online schooling in the way of the ot temple, sacrifices, offerings etc.

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

In the meantime, if I understand you correctly. You(your view of the scriptures) have ot priests living off the temple and the alter, by way of eating a small portion of what is sacrificed. Yet the “Even so”, the gospel preachers are to live off the gospel by way of money, or by food offerings, or what? Paul is expecting those that preach the gospel, to live off the gospel, in what way, as it relates to those priests that get a portion of shoulder roast?

You have the essence of what my interpretation is of this passage. The OT priests were eating portions of the offerings and sacrifices. This is what Paul is talking about. The tithes were not put on the altar, so he could not be referring to the tithes.

Let's consider verse 4.

[4] Have we not power to eat and to drink?

This answers your question. It was about food and drink. What it was not about, was money. If the tithe were food today, as it was in the Bible, do you think we would have the problems with pastors attempting to make tithing a salvation issue? Would they be twisting scripture and teaching false doctrine about the tithe, as they do now? The love of money, is the root of all evil. It will cause people to twist scripture even. Shocking but true.

Let's address another verse from the same chapter . . .

[11] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

In this verse, we have the mention of carnal things. Preachers will say that money is carnal in reference to this verse. Money is NOT carnal. Carnal means "of the body". Someone that is accused of having carnal knowledge of another person, probably does not refer to the possibility that they gave them money (with the possible exception of prostitution, which is a statement in itself). Carnal has to do with needs of the body (food, water, shelter, sexual, etc.). If you were to hear about a school shooting, and the news mentions carnage, do you assume that there are hundred dollar bills covering the ground? Or might you believe that there are body parts and blood everywhere?

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

No matter if Paul kept making tents, for the purpose to be entirely blameless of profiting from the gospel, he still said “The Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel”.
So, to a gospel preachers credit, if he said, tell me tithemeister, or tell me Isaiah, “how am I to obey the Lord in that scripture, and live from the gospel, as it relates to the priests that received 1/10th if the Levites tithe, in the form of food, to survive?

In answer to this question, you should focus on whether the tithe is the subject here. There is nothing wrong with giving offerings of food, clothing or money. It is when the subject turns to tithing that scripture begins to be twisted, and lies begin to be told.

In general, this chapter is perhaps the best evidence that Paul did NOT believe in tithing. If he had he would have just said "pay your tithes". Instead he talks about the law forbidding the muzzling of the ox? Remember, Paul was a Pharisee before he was saved. He was educated about the law. If he was talking about tithes, why would he bring up the ox? The ox was not eligible to receive tithes. This lesson is about treating the ox well. If you treat the ox right, it should go without saying that the preacher should be taken care of.

Elsewhere, Paul is very clear that the preacher, or the elders, should work for a living. He set a clear example for the church that this is how it should be.

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

How am I to obey that scripture?
By receiving money offerings?

By receiving whatever kind of offerings. Always remember that tithes were never money, and money was never tithes . . . in the entire Bible. No exceptions.

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Since nobody will likely bring me a t bone steak nowadays”.
I’m not being sarcastic, I’m asking in defense of that scripture, on behalf of those that are commanded to live from the gospel.

The tithe was connected to the land that God gave the children of Israel. When there is no land, there is no tithe. The tithe was ordered by God to be of the increase of the seed of the land, the increase of the herds, and the increase of the flocks, from the land that He gave them. People that did not raise crops, flocks or herds did not have anything eligible to tithe from, even in the Old Testament.

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Part of what was preached that I mentioned was hammering out that “I know preachers that can’t hardly survive because of Thieves in the Church! And pastors are not suppose to be bi vocational anyway!.” (I know, Paul..)

Being a preacher was never a qualification to receive tithes in the Bible, either in the Old Testament, or the New. Being a man of God did not qualify you to receive tithes . . . ever. There are prophets and preachers in the Old Testament that were not Levites, so they were not eligible for receiving tithes. The qualification for receiving a portion of the Levitical tithe was that you were a Levite. Elisha was a prophet, but he wasn't a Levite, therefore he could not receive a tithe.

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

By the way, if you would like to hear it , pm me and I’ll send you an online link to it.

Send it to me.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You could just give whatever moneys you felt comfortable giving, and leave it at that.

[JamesGlen]

Is there any UPC churches that do not tithe?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Is there any UPC churches that do not tithe?

I'm not sure. I AM sure that their are a lot of PEOPLE in UPC churches that do not tithe.

I think what you really mean is "Are there any UPC churches that do not teach tithes?"

If they do not teach tithing, I don't believe you will hear them advertise the fact.

Have you read the Articles of Faith of the UPCI? ALJC? WPF? Concerning tithes?

When you take the AOF and the Affirmation Statement and add them together, it seems like you have a contract that a UPCI pastor will teach tithing. At least I think I'm right about this.

[Tithesmeister]

I watched the video of this sermon. In it, the pastor mentions the Malachi curse. He may not be aware of the scripture below . . .

Gal.3
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[JamesGlen]

Interesting audio, relative to the topic.
Has a free sample to listen to.

http://www.byronmeshellegoines.com/t...he-debate.aspx


I’m finding good stuff on Russell Kelly’s debate site too.

https://www.tithingdebate.com

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You could just give whatever moneys you felt comfortable giving, and leave it at that.

That’s how I’ve done it, cash or check in the offering basket. But the contention is what the funds are lackingly labeled as in the “tithing envelope”, tithe or offerings. He gets the tithe, that is his beef(pun?). When it’s not marked as tithe...you are a church thief.

[JamesGlen]

So if I’m understanding this tithe correctly, the Levites only served in the temple about a grand total of five weeks out of the year, when they were “up to bat”, the rest of the time they were at their allotted spot in the designated 24 cities doing the same thing everybody else was doing.

[JamesGlen]

Would this be accurate, regarding Barnabas?
This verse is worth delving into.





In Hebrews 8:13, the old covenant was becoming obsolete and ready to vanish away. This was speaking specifically of the things relative to the old testament temple and it’s sacrifices, yet was written around 64AD.
Were not the Levi priests still collecting tithe from the Jews up until 70 A.D., when the temple was destroyed?? And That is why the writer said “becoming obsolete”??

So for 6 decades after Jesus resurrected, there were still Levites receiving tithe, and then giving 1/10 of their food to the Aaronic priesthood, for the purpose of fulfilling their role relative to animal sacrifices for the remission of sin.
Yet all the while Peter had been preaching JN baptism for the remission of sin, not animal sacrifices.

60 years and 2 different sin remitting going on. One worked one didn’t.
The ONLY people that had a biblical right by God to the tithe as an inheritance was the tribe of Levite. No other tribes were allowed.

The apostle Barnabas was from the tribe of Levi, that would have received tithe and served in the temple. Yet he was on the road with Paul.
This is worth pondering I believe...



The 70 year overlap of abominable temple “work” by the Levites and high priests, while sin remittance via the gospel, seems very interesting in how it relates(or doesn’t!( to tithes going to pastors. Has anyone of u looked into that much?