Tithing…Is it a command?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so(likewise) the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.


Please explain the “Even So”, comparison between preachers, and those in the preceding verse.(priests or Levites?) And how gospel preachers should live be by the gospel.
Simply offerings?
Is that the comparison u guys see?

Peter 83, that seems to conflict w your post.

I think I explained that this means offerings. Perhaps you should explain what leads you to believe it is tithes? Meanwhile I will reinforce the offerings/sacrifices perspective. Let’s go to the reference to the altar in this chapter . . .

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

Did tithes ever go on the altar?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Why thank you for that cheap shot, Esaias.

I don’t recall ever noticing the parallel in that verse, hence why I posted it for consideration.



Since you answered with a no, would you care to explain your opinion of exactly what it does mean?

Specifically, why would Paul intentionally picture out a comparison between the ot levitical tithing system and nt preachers living off the gospel, if nt preachers are not suppose to receive a tithe?

It wasn't a cheap shot. Tithes were not paid in cash, tithes were agricultural products, tithes were mostly eaten by the tither. Nobody today has authority to demand tithes, nobody has authority to receive tithes, and nobody wants them anyway. What they want is 10% of your paycheck, which is not the commanded tithe at all.

Thus, you will not pay them because you cannot, and because your pastor wouldn't accept a Biblical tithe anyway

"Even so" means "just like". Paul is saying that just like those who serve at the altar in Jerusalem were to find their sustenance from the gifts and offerings made on that altar, those who preach the gospel are to find their sustenance from the gospel. That is, they ought to be supported by fellow Christians.

The particular manner of that support is between the believer and God. "Even so" does not mean preachers are to be supported by the offerings that were to be brought to the altar. Paul would be teaching Christian Judeans to STOP giving offerings. Something he never did and denied teaching.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so(likewise) the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.


Please explain the “Even So”, comparison between preachers, and those in the preceding verse.(priests or Levites?) And how gospel preachers should live be by the gospel.
Simply offerings?
Is that the comparison u guys see?

Peter 83, that seems to conflict w your post.

Yes Paul says that God commanded those who preach the gospel to live by it.
But Paul (our example) did not used this authority . But he chooses to preach it without money .

i respect when i see brothers mimic Paul on that thing!
Acts 4: 35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Notice that they gave all the money to the Apostles FEET! (NOT POCKETS)

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Paul never refers to the tithe in this passage. You are making that connection, not Paul. The majority of the tithe never was brought to the temple. There were forty eight cities where the Levitical tithe was rendered. I believe what Paul was referring to is offerings and sacrifices. ALL sacrifices were offered at the temple. The priests ate portions of these sacrifices and offerings. Most tithes (more than 90 percent?) never went to the temple. Only one tenth of the Levitical tithe was given to the priests. Nine tenths of the Levitical tithe was kept and eaten by Levites who were NOT priests.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think I explained that this means offerings. Perhaps you should explain what leads you to believe it is tithes? Meanwhile I will reinforce the offerings/sacrifices perspective. Let’s go to the reference to the altar in this chapter . . .

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

Did tithes ever go on the altar?

I’m not intentionally being hard headed, ftr, but I am trying to learn this. I’ll have to find some online schooling in the way of the ot temple, sacrifices, offerings etc.
In the meantime, if I understand you correctly. You(your view of the scriptures) have ot priests living off the temple and the alter, by way of eating a small portion of what is sacrificed. Yet the “Even so”, the gospel preachers are to live off the gospel by way of money, or by food offerings, or what? Paul is expecting those that preach the gospel, to live off the gospel, in what way, as it relates to those priests that get a portion of shoulder roast?

No matter if Paul kept making tents, for the purpose to be entirely blameless of profiting from the gospel, he still said “The Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel”.
So, to a gospel preachers credit, if he said, tell me tithemeister, or tell me Isaiah, “how am I to obey the Lord in that scripture, and live from the gospel, as it relates to the priests that received 1/10th if the Levites tithe, in the form of food, to survive?
How am I to obey that scripture?
By receiving money offerings?
Since nobody will likely bring me a t bone steak nowadays”.
I’m not being sarcastic, I’m asking in defense of that scripture, on behalf of those that are commanded to live from the gospel.


Part of what was preached that I mentioned was hammering out that “I know preachers that can’t hardly survive because of Thieves in the Church! And pastors are not suppose to be bi vocational anyway!.” (I know, Paul..)



By the way, if you would like to hear it , pm me and I’ll send you an online link to it.

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by peter83

Yes Paul says that God commanded those who preach the gospel to live by it.
But Paul (our example) did not used this authority . But he chooses to preach it without money .

i respect when i see brothers mimic Paul on that thing!
Acts 4: 35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Notice that they gave all the money to the Apostles FEET! (NOT POCKETS)

A gospel preacher could easily say, I realize that Paul chose to go the extra mile to be blameless, regarding receiving any financial gain by way of preaching the gospel. However, for me to obey this verse, and obey what the Lord commanded, I must have financial gain, by way of preaching the gospel. Else tell me how I am to obey this verse?

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It wasn't a cheap shot. Tithes were not paid in cash, tithes were agricultural products, tithes were mostly eaten by the tither. Nobody today has authority to demand tithes, nobody has authority to receive tithes, and nobody wants them anyway. What they want is 10% of your paycheck, which is not the commanded tithe at all.

Thus, you will not pay them because you cannot, and because your pastor wouldn't accept a Biblical tithe anyway

"Even so" means "just like". Paul is saying that just like those who serve at the altar in Jerusalem were to find their sustenance from the gifts and offerings made on that altar, those who preach the gospel are to find their sustenance from the gospel. That is, they ought to be supported by fellow Christians.

The particular manner of that support is between the believer and God. "Even so" does not mean preachers are to be supported by the offerings that were to be brought to the altar. Paul would be teaching Christian Judeans to STOP giving offerings. Something he never did and denied teaching.

I just read this. Thank you. I will think on it...


Truth is, I feel I am scripturally accountable to respond to this recent service on Thieves in the Church. I either need to amen him like many others, or “pull my sword”, in attempt to shed light on the scriptures. I’m just trying to do my homework before I do anything.
The night of the service, I was awake almost the entire night bent out of shape.
It puts me in quite the quandary.
We give offerings in the offering basket, yet also other places outside the local church too.
Church bldg is paid for, plus a small shopping center, plus 4 house rentals, paid for from church offerings. Pastoring owns 10 rental houses himself.

Whatever I do to deal w it, I want to be entirely respectful, yet prove by the scriptures why i I cannot go along.

Deal is, like many others, they have built this mindset, that the church today is a type and shadow of the ot temple, in which it is pictured painted out like this:
The bldg is the house of God, where the sacrifice(Now of praise instead of animals) is made. It is holy ground, just like Bethel, because this is the PLACE where God meets us, when we “USHER in his presence. The pastor takes the place of the Levites, receiving a tithe from the people Now. Type and shadow. It’s the perfect picture, and many, especially old school, cheer him on.
Makes me think of where in the Old Testament they said give us a king to rule over us, but that was not Gods intent. Im not sure exactly how all to tear down the painted type/shadow picture of the “system”, holy ground house of God and tithe thing. It runs deep in their mind, and heart.

I have a lot invested in this. All my friends belong to this. All my children’s friends belong to this. I grew up w this. I and my wife have ministry in this.
But the thought of listening to one more sentence from the pulpit almost makes me want to throw up. No kidding.

He even mentioned in that service, and evangelist it came through a while back that he was bragging on, in relation to teaching on the tithe. One thing I recall when the evangelist was here, he said that everyone who had not been tithing not only needs to start tilthing, but backpay all the tithe money that they had not paid since they were born again, even if it was a decade ago.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

"I’m not intentionally being hard headed, ftr, but I am trying to learn this. I’ll have to find some online schooling in the way of the ot temple, sacrifices, offerings etc."

I believe you. And I know that when you have been indoctrinated to believe that the tithe is what they say it is, it is difficult to believe even the Bible. It seems that we are faced with believing a God that we cannot see, over a man that we can see, audibly hear, and even touch. Truly it is a difficult situation. It comes down to truth and lies. It may seem harsh, but it really is that simple.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

I’m not intentionally being hard headed, ftr, but I am trying to learn this. I’ll have to find some online schooling in the way of the ot temple, sacrifices, offerings etc.
In the meantime, if I understand you correctly. You(your view of the scriptures) have ot priests living off the temple and the alter, by way of eating a small portion of what is sacrificed. Yet the “Even so”, the gospel preachers are to live off the gospel by way of money, or by food offerings, or what? Paul is expecting those that preach the gospel, to live off the gospel, in what way, as it relates to those priests that get a portion of shoulder roast?

No matter if Paul kept making tents, for the purpose to be entirely blameless of profiting from the gospel, he still said “The Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel”.
So, to a gospel preachers credit, if he said, tell me tithemeister, or tell me Isaiah, “how am I to obey the Lord in that scripture, and live from the gospel, as it relates to the priests that received 1/10th if the Levites tithe, in the form of food, to survive?
How am I to obey that scripture?
By receiving money offerings?
Since nobody will likely bring me a t bone steak nowadays”.
I’m not being sarcastic, I’m asking in defense of that scripture, on behalf of those that are commanded to live from the gospel.


Part of what was preached that I mentioned was hammering out that “I know preachers that can’t hardly survive because of Thieves in the Church! And pastors are not suppose to be bi vocational anyway!.” (I know, Paul..)



By the way, if you would like to hear it , pm me and I’ll send you an online link to it.

Originally Posted by peter83

Yes Paul says that God commanded those who preach the gospel to live by it.
But Paul (our example) did not used this authority . But he chooses to preach it without money .

i respect when i see brothers mimic Paul on that thing!
Acts 4: 35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Notice that they gave all the money to the Apostles FEET! (NOT POCKETS)

The money was to be given to everyone that had need, by the apostles too. It was not for the apostles exclusively.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

A gospel preacher could easily say, I realize that Paul chose to go the extra mile to be blameless, regarding receiving any financial gain by way of preaching the gospel. However, for me to obey this verse, and obey what the Lord commanded, I must have financial gain, by way of preaching the gospel. Else tell me how I am to obey this verse?

You could! But maybe you want to Better to obey that verse too:
"2 Thes.3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

The money was to be given to everyone that had need, by the apostles too. It was not for the apostles exclusively.

Yes the money was given to all who had needs! 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.