God's Answer To Californication

[Praxeas]

Ok, Im not gonna read the rest of this thread since Im sure I will just see more idiotic statements from the author...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ok, Im not gonna read the rest of this thread since Im sure I will just see more idiotic statements from the author...

No, he chimed out as others chimed in.

[Michael The Disciple]

Apostolic Friends,

I see much has been said during my eight hours away at work. All of it with exception of the thoughtful post by Esther has basically been the same.

I have been reading the Bible almost daily since Feb. 15 1974. I have read over and over again the many places where the Prophets and Preachers of old including the Lord Jesus prophesied of judgment against sin.

I have heard modern day Preachers also preach that God would judge America for its sins. Yet why is it when these things happen Church people cannot see it? Is YHWH the same yesterday, today, and forever?

I invite any of you to do something. Go to the book of Kings for instance. Start reading from the beginning and read through also 2 Kings. An unmistakeable pattern emerges.

YHWH is activley involved in the affairs of men. Notice as you read that practically ALL of the actions good or bad of the Kings were answered by YHWH. If a King did evil we read of it. If he did good we read about it.

Wars, famines, captivities are all said to be a direct result of YHWH blessing or punishing.

Its easy to look back and see what I am saying is true. Yet IN OUR TIME if and when God decides to intervene in the affairs of men there is a great outcry such as on the AFF Forum today. Men and women saying he would not do such a thing.

Pray tell friends can you name a time in this generation you believe that God intervened in the affairs of the nations? Or after Jesus came do you think he does not concern himself with nations any longer? Are they doing what they do apart from his knowledge?

In your opinion what would it take for the Almighty Elohim of the Bible to strike judgment upon a nation? Or is it your belief he will only judge on an individual basis on the day of judgment?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Sodom was not the only city destroyed. California is NOT a city. It's one nation with a lot of people serving God in it. Truly sad...and pathetic.
You've just made the argument that we Californians are all fornicators...well how convenient for you. What state do you live in? Or perhaps should you fall ill or something bad happen to you or your family we can all say it was because of your fornicating ways

I did not say all Californians were fornicators. I said California has become synonomous with fornication. Then I gave a link to press home the point. There is a TV show called CALIFORNICATION. And no I have not watched it before you ask.

It is my way of saying California has a very bad reputation. If so with men how much more so with a holy God? Im sure there are some good Godly people in California.

Lot was a righteous man who lived in a sinful place. YHWH showed him mercy when he brought his wrath upon it. He allowed him and his family to escape the place.

Yet he lost his home and whatever property he could not carry along with him. If there are Godly people in S. California who lost their homes I am sorry for them. Yet the Almighty has spared their lives (apparentley) and as they trust in him he will bless them.

Was YHWH cruel and unfair to send Lot away from the destruction of Sodom to the loss of his home and property? I believe Abraham rejoiced that his prayers were answered about Lot. He did not die along with the Sodomites. But he did have to start over again.

I live in Kentucky. We had our the worst Summer here I know of in my lifetime. Our drought index was not extreme but was EXCEPTIONAL which is considered worse. Thank God the last few days we are again getting rain.

The South has had drought, the Midwest and Texas floods. It is not just California.

And yes I have had hard things happen in my life. I have continued to trust Yeshua to bring me to fulfill whatever he has for my life. Some of them were indeed chastisments. Even they are for my benefit that I might be partaker of his holiness.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Apostolic Friends,

I see much has been said during my eight hours away at work. All of it with exception of the thoughtful post by Esther has basically been the same.

I have been reading the Bible almost daily since Feb. 15 1974. I have read over and over again the many places where the Prophets and Preachers of old including the Lord Jesus prophesied of judgment against sin.

I have heard modern day Preachers also preach that God would judge America for its sins. Yet why is it when these things happen Church people cannot see it? Is YHWH the same yesterday, today, and forever?

I invite any of you to do something. Go to the book of Kings for instance. Start reading from the beginning and read through also 2 Kings. An unmistakeable pattern emerges.

YHWH is activley involved in the affairs of men. Notice as you read that practically ALL of the actions good or bad of the Kings were answered by YHWH. If a King did evil we read of it. If he did good we read about it.

Wars, famines, captivities are all said to be a direct result of YHWH blessing or punishing.

Its easy to look back and see what I am saying is true. Yet IN OUR TIME if and when God decides to intervene in the affairs of men there is a great outcry such as on the AFF Forum today. Men and women saying he would not do such a thing.

Pray tell friends can you name a time in this generation you believe that God intervened in the affairs of the nations? Or after Jesus came do you think he does not concern himself with nations any longer? Are they doing what they do apart from his knowledge?

In your opinion what would it take for the Almighty Elohim of the Bible to strike judgment upon a nation? Or is it your belief he will only judge on an individual basis on the day of judgment?

Nothing you posted proves that God punished all those people in California because of what some legislator did.

Most glaring is your non-answers to the refutation of your sodom arguments and the other arguments.

I repeat, we have fires EVERY YEAR around this time. IN fact we just had a huge fire in the Los Padres National Forest near Zaca Lake that lasted for a month or more...where were you then? For what sin was that? What about the fires this time last year? The year before that?

You have no answer other than to say the only "thoughtful post" was Esthers?

You know, it does not take a super duper spiritual "prophet" to read the news paper and tie a yearly re-occuring tragic event to what just happened in Sacramento.

It also does not take a prophet to predict fires this time of year. I repeat, we have these EVERY YEAR about this time of year.

What was Californications sin last year? And the year before that? And that? And that? And that?

You also implicated all Californians being fornicators, that includes me buster. You need to go back and respond to those other thoughtful posts and offer some explanations or apologies as far as I am concerned.

[AmazingGrace]

Goodness whats up with all the new quacks on here all the sudden or old quacks acting quackier... Is it a full moon again??!?!?!?!?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I did not say all Californians were fornicators. I said California has become synonomous with fornication.

Same thing. You are lose with words sir. That's a terrible thing to say. I live here! It is NOT synonymous with fornication. You are reacting because of what the legistator did...that's NOT indicative of the entire state.

Then you had the nerve to compare us to Sodom?!?! Come on.

Then I gave a link to press home the point. There is a TV show called CALIFORNICATION. And no I have not watched it before you ask.

I don't give a hoot if there is a show called that. So you are going to base your criticisms based on a show you never watched?

It is my way of saying California has a very bad reputation. If so with men how much more so with a holy God? Im sure there are some good Godly people in California.

some good eh? Just some, but not enough to keep back the hand of God in your expert opinion eh? All God needed for Sodom was 10 righteous...either we have less than 10 in all the state of California or you don't have a clue.

And where did you hear of this reputation? You know how many cities are in California? 2 right? San Francisco and San Diego....no, far more than that. Why not wipe out Florida and Miami? wipe out New York and Grenwich Village. What about Amsterdam? You made this judgement based on the "law" that was recently voted in by a few men and women and the governor...that does not come close to even 50% of this state....

Lot was a righteous man who lived in a sinful place. YHWH showed him mercy when he brought his wrath upon it. He alowed him and hisfamily to escape the place.

God showed Lot mercy for Abraham's sake, but lets revisit this again...how many righteous would God have spared Sodom for? 10. You compared California to Sodom. You just don't have a clue. We have fires EVERY YEAR. We will have them NEXT year too.

Yet he lost his home and whatever property he could not carry along with him. If there are Godly people in S. California who lost their homes I am sorry for them. Yet the Almighty has spared their lives (apparentley) and as they trust in him he will bless them.

I feel the sympathy. But you are playing Newspaper Prophet. These fires would have happened anyways. They do each and every year since I was a kid.

Was YHWH cruel and unfair to send Lot away from the destruction of Sodom to the loss of his home and property? I believe Abraham rejoiced that his prayers were answered about Lot. He did not die along with the Sodomites. But he did have to start over again.

God destroyed a city that was ENTIRELY given over to wickedness! By making that gross comparison you are saying there are NO righteous people in California. That we are all given over to wickedness...because you read somewhere about a bill that was passed and the idiotic decision of one man in San Diego. You don't see the difference?

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes you have fires every year. So do we. But consider this:

A city that suspends it decency laws so they can have a "gay pride day". Then the Lesbian Fire Chief of the city commands all the Firefighters in the city to partake in the hideous wickedness. Even those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Does God ever get mad? If he were mad over this would he need your permission before he reacted? Would he need mine?

When I read about this a while back I said in my heart I know God will judge San Diego for this. And now you want me to think its a mere coincidence that some 250,000 people are fleeing the area while the FIREFIGHTERS try to put it out?

If something angers him he is sovereign. My Bible contains stories where his judgments destroyed many people because of ONE MANS sin.

Again I ask where has YHWH intervened in world affairs in your lifetime?

What would it take for him to "have the right" to punish a city or nation?

Ever since I was a small boy I have heard about sin in California. Decades go by and because God has not severely punished her Christians have become non sensitive to his holy wrath. They have thought because he hasn't already done it they dont deserve it. Not considering the longsuffering and patience he has shown over many years.

I have no problem saying the place I live in is a wicked place. It is also being judged. I cry out on its streets for men, women, and children to repent and turn to Christ.

This entire nation will soon be bruised and perhaps shattered because of sin. God hates sin. He loves righteousness. He has for a long time held back his wrath. But he will not hold it back forever.

Fear God. Love God. Seek his face. Obey his commands. You shall be saved.

[Michael The Disciple]

Prax

Nothing you posted proves that God punished all those people in California because of what some legislator did.

Can one Legislators actions bring disaster on a whole group of people?

1: Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.
2: And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; and the children of Israel had sworn unto them: and Saul sought to slay them in his zeal to the children of Israel and Judah.)
3: Wherefore David said unto the Gibeonites, What shall I do for you? and wherewith shall I make the atonement, that ye may bless the inheritance of the LORD?
4: And the Gibeonites said unto him, We will have no silver nor gold of Saul, nor of his house; neither for us shalt thou kill any man in Israel. And he said, What ye shall say, that will I do for you.
5: And they answered the king, The man that consumed us, and that devised against us that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the coasts of Israel,
6: Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD did choose. And the king said, I will give them.
7: But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul.
8: But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
9: And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.
10: And Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.
11: And it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done.
12: And David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabesh-gilead, which had stolen them from the street of Beth-shan, where the Philistines had hanged them, when the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa:
13: And he brought up from thence the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son; and they gathered the bones of them that were hanged.
14: And the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son buried they in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the sepulchre of Kish his father: and they performed all that the king commanded. And after that God was intreated for the land. 2 Samuel 21:1-14

Saul commited the sin. He was their Legislator. The land of Israel had FAMINE for three years just because HE sinned. Then seven of his decendants were HANGED to make atonement.

Much misery because one Governor sinned.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes you have fires every year. So do we.

Ah, see? That means you guys are synonymous with fornication. What great sins goes on in your area? Do tell...

But consider this:

A city that suspends it decency laws so they can have a "gay pride day". Then the Lesbian Fire Chief of the city commands all the Firefighters in the city to partake in the hideous wickedness. Even those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

every city in the US can have a gay pride parade. It's part of the constitution of protections. If not the ACLU would have a field day. It's NOT just in California. AND I reiterate...we have MORE than 10 Righteous, so your argument falls flat. As a state too we voted against gay marriages....what did God do to the other states that voted it IN instead?

Does God ever get mad? If he were mad over this would he need your permission before he reacted? Would he need mine?

That's NOT even the issue. You claim assertively THIS IS THE JUDGMENT OF GOD. You are trying to make a case to prove that this was INDEED the judgment of God...did God tell you that?

None of your arguments prove that these fires, as opposed to the fires where YOU are at or the fires we have every year, was the punishment of God...who was punished? The governor for voting it it? The mayer of SD for his action? No...nope. Not even the fire department was punished. They did their jobs. Some people lost their homes. No mention if one was the mayer or the governor....sorry but you are not proving what you set out to prove and you are not really addressing our counter points. IN fact you are introducing red herring arguments by avoiding them and then asking another question. It does not matter if God gets mad. It does not matter if God judges sin or will judge sin or judges cities or nations, What matters is your assertion that of ALL the fire seasons we have had, this one was from God...of all the fire seasons YOU have had...only OURS was from God.

When I read about this a while back I said in my heart I know God will judge San Diego for this. And now you want me to think its a mere coincidence that some 250,000 people are fleeing the area while the FIREFIGHTERS try to put it out?

See the above. You have not proven anything. You are avoiding all the points. We have Fire seasons EVERY YEAR. This would have happened anyways. How can you say it's judgment when it always happens? lol. You don't even see the inconsistency of that or the illogic? You'd rather go by feelings.

If something angers him he is sovereign. My Bible contains stories where his judgments destroyed many people because of ONE MANS sin.

Prove that is the case here? You used the analogy of SODOM. I repeat, California is NOT given over to fornication. We are not following the leader of a rebellion against God.

Again I ask where has YHWH intervened in world affairs in your lifetime?

AGain you ask? That's the first time. My answer is I don't know. I don't pretend to be the doomsday prophet saying "well this fire was punishment, but not this fire"..it's you that does that.

What would it take for him to "have the right" to punish a city or nation?

Once again you are changing the topic. We have these fire seasons EVERY YEAR buddy. Every year. We always have them. This is NOTHING NEW. If that was judgment, whose attention would it get? We EXPECT these fires, every year. In fact there were warnings about the fire from the various agencies because of the dryness, the season and the Santa Ana's,. They come every year this time of year. It's predictable

Ever since I was a small boy I have heard about sin in California.

There is SIN everywhere dude. The WHOLE of California is NOT anymore in gross sin than in your town. Now if you want to talk about SF, then why does not God then just punish that town alone? We are talking about an event that happens the same month every year lol...you don't get that do you?

Decades go by and because God has not severely punished her Christians have become non sensitive to his holy wrath.

Oh my goodness. See? here you are super spiritually bad mouthing the Christians in California. Dude, stop while you are behind. THESE FIRES HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. If we believe you, God has been pouring out His Wrath EVERY YEAR in OCTOBER...if your logic was consistant, though you seem to deny the other times it was not God....you don't even realize it would have happened anyways. We always have these fire seasons every year THIS time of year. Incredible.

They have thought because he hasn't already done it they dont deserve it. Not considering the longsuffering and patience he has shown over many years.

The Christians....so now you are saying the Christians deserved it? You are not posting one shred of evidence that proves of all the fire seasons this one in particular was from God....it would have happened anyways. They always do

I have no problem saying the place I live in is a wicked place. It is also being judged. I cry out on its streets for men, women, and children to repent and turn to Christ.

Dude, every bad thing that happens is NOT necessarily judgment from God. The bible just does not say that.

This entire nation will soon be bruised and perhaps shattered because of sin. God hates sin. He loves righteousness. He has for a long time held back his wrath. But he will not hold it back forever.

That may be, but that is not what we are discussing. Not one thing you have posted shows this fire was FROM GOD for PUN

Fear God. Love God. Seek his face. Obey his commands. You shall be saved.

You should follow your own advice. And while you are at it, add "do not judge". I know I am saved, I don't know about you. And I know you have not offered one shred of evidence or refutation of any counter argument. You just avoid them all