Why are UPC church's so sectarian?

Originally Posted by UltraCon

I see your point, i'll start fellowshipping sinners........ I mean liberals, so that I can win them. Oh, and I promise my message will not change.

Now, I am willing to get dirty to win a sinner but I don't have any respect for false doctrine. This may sound harsh but I don't see much different between a Charismatic and a Catholic. I believe both are in false doctrine and while I may be willing to go out of the way to reach unchurched sinners I will not subject our saints to false doctrine. Would you fellowship your church with a Muslim church? I don't think you would. Why? Because you believe totally different things and that's how I feel about fellowshipping with liberals.

Let me put a disclaimer on this. I am speaking mainly of ministry. It's not the congrgation of the other churches that I don't respect, it's the ministry that is leading that church.

On thing about you UltraCon, your name fits your attitude. One thing I can say about you, you seem to practice what you preach. Howbeit, there isn't any one person walking in shoe leather that has all truth. There isn't any one denomination that can't learn from another. Nobody has a corner on Christ! Know it alls can never learn, because they know it all. Why listen to anybody else when you know everything there is to know.

I'll be learning until the day I die and will still not have attained all that God has to show me. Paul said he had yet not attained either. We are all just people trying to get to heaven and love Jesus. Lighten up with the false doctrine stuff before I prove you wrong.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

The very use of the word "standards" in describing our rules of dress and grooming is in error.

How many sermons have you heard a preacher quoute "when the enemy codmes in God will raise up a standard" and then go one to clotheline preaching from there?

I have never heard that scripture used to preach on standards in over 20yr with 9 or those years in the UPC.

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

On thing about you UltraCon, your name fits your attitude. One thing I can say about you, you seem to practice what you preach. Howbeit, there isn't any one person walking in shoe leather that has all truth. There isn't any one denomination that can't learn from another. Nobody has a corner on Christ! Know it alls can never learn, because they know it all. Why listen to anybody else when you know everything there is to know.

I'll be learning until the day I die and will still not have attained all that God has to show me. Paul said he had yet not attained either. We are all just people trying to get to heaven and love Jesus. Lighten up with the false doctrine stuff before I prove you wrong.

You are right...I do want to have all that God has for me and yes I even want you to have all that God has for you as well. I do take issue wth your statment about denominations being able to learn from others. Let me ask this... if you are a pastor would you allow some Baptist preacher to get up and preach for your church? If you can learn from him then surely so can your people.

Originally Posted by UltraCon

You are right...I do want to have all that God has for me and yes I even want you to have all that God has for you as well. I do take issue wth your statment about denominations being able to learn from others. Let me ask this... if you are a pastor would you allow some Baptist preacher to get up and preach for your church? If you can learn from him then surely so can your people.

There are many great oneness baptist H.G. filled preachers. Don't stereotype baptist either. I am a pastor and have wonderful friends in every direction. I just preached a H.G. revival crusade for his church which is "Full Gospel Baptist Church". Many were healed, delivered and set free. See I told you I'll smoke you...(lol) I still love you too.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by UltraCon

I see your point, i'll start fellowshipping sinners........ I mean liberals, so that I can win them. Oh, and I promise my message will not change.

Now, I am willing to get dirty to win a sinner but I don't have any respect for false doctrine. This may sound harsh but I don't see much different between a Charismatic and a Catholic. I believe both are in false doctrine and while I may be willing to go out of the way to reach unchurched sinners I will not subject our saints to false doctrine. Would you fellowship your church with a Muslim church? I don't think you would. Why? Because you believe totally different things and that's how I feel about fellowshipping with liberals.

Let me put a disclaimer on this. I am speaking mainly of ministry. It's not the congrgation of the other churches that I don't respect, it's the ministry that is leading that church.

You identify those who disagree with you and refuse to fellowship with them and then there are millions who believe you are in false doctrine. So, folks polarize and refuse to acknowledge one another's common identity in Christ. Was the Church the Body of Christ in the first century even though doctrine wasn't fully developed? If so, what placed them there. It wasn't there doctrinal position.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Right.

I suppose that I see the world as going the other way on the road of life with a completely different destination.

Thus, finding the middle of the road in life is a very liberal tendency as well as is huging the center line.

The 'conservative' approach tends to huge the line closest to the ditch in a genuinely conservative by definition reaction to the traffic in the other lane. This can lend itself to getting sucked into the ditch. Sometimes fatal, sometimes not.

This is why a Biblically based balance keeps us where we really need to be, though often when the world comes at you the life saving reaction might take you off the road for a time of conservative avoidance and survival. I have friends in the grave that zigged when they should have zagged.

Overall we need to keep it all in perpective and make it to our destination and stop along the way from time to time to let travellers know that the southbound lane leads to a dead end. Some believe, turn around, and follow, some think you must be joking.

I don't believe the world is on the road of life. They are dead in trespasses and sins, without God and without life. We are in Him who is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Granted this one way road we are traveling isn't free from hazards. Like the deer that jumped out in front of my car this summer, there are many things in the ditches to distract us, and there are possible detours set up by the enemy to lure folks away from THE WAY, but no one but the redeemed are walking the road I am on.

"And a highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness.
The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way;
wicked fools will not go about on it.

No lion will be there,
nor will any ferocious beast get up on it;
they will not be found there.
But only the redeemed will walk there," (Isa.35:8-9)

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

In the days of Jesus there were, as there are today in the church, what we have chosen to label as liberals and conservatives. The liberals in Jesus' day were called the Sadducees and the conservatives were called the Pharisees. One day Jesus said to His disciples, " . . . beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees." In today's language He might have said, " . . . beware the influence of the liberals and the conservatives."

This is no time for the liberals to become more liberal and the conservatives more conservative. Remember, Jesus warned us of the leaven of both extremes.

We need to realize that we can't put our faith in a "something;" we have to put it in Someone. We must be totally committed to Jesus. He Himself told us that when we build on the Rock, the storms of life will not drive us out to sea, where extremes dictate our course.

How long are we liberals and conservatives going to be controlled by the "somethings" we believe in? It seems to me that currently we are both in a ditch. We will never get to heaven the way we are going. When the car slides off the road, the trip is over until it gets back on. I believe it is time for all of us to climb out of whichever side of the road we have slid into and return to the middle of the road.

Some people are not comfortable with the term "middle of the road." Neither am I, if by that is meant the middle of the wrong road. The middle of the road I am talking about is the middle of the right road! The one-way street to eternal life and heaven. Let it not be forgotten that Jesus was murdered by a coalition of liberals and conservatives. The Sadducees, who were the liberals, hated Jesus because He was so principled. The Pharisees, who were the conservatives, hated Him because He was so nice to people. I want to be in the middle of the right road. I want to be a person who is nice, but who has high principles.

Let's get out of the ditch and back onto the "Road of Life in Jesus Christ" where He is the focus not our personal perceptions on how to walk this road. Maybe then we could stop arguing with one another all the time and join together in defeating the real enemy.

VERY GOOD!

[HangingOut]

I'll tell you how real this is. Fact, when one particular pastor was still in the UPC he would screen the monthly district periodical and to determine wether the saints could read it or not. They were not allowed to attend camp meeting this year because of who was speaking. Sad to say, but this will be old news to a lot on here.

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Amen...if the slave owners could keep em ignorant, they could keep em in the field. He that the son sets free is free indeed. Spread the good news!

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Sandra

this thread will be short lived, just a guess.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by HangingOut

I'll tell you how real this is. Fact, when one particular pastor was still in the UPC he would screen the monthly district periodical and to determine wether the saints could read it or not. They were not allowed to attend camp meeting this year because of who was speaking. Sad to say, but this will be old news to a lot on here.

It's all about protecting the lowly saints from themselves! The pastor obviously doesn't trust his people to use sound judgment.

I know a pastor who would cruise by his saints homes at night to see if he would see the TV glow!