The Johannine Comma: Inspiration? Or Interpolation?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Another very common objection to 1 John 5:7 is the allegation that Erasmus said he would include the verse if he found a Greek manuscript that contained it. Then almost made to order, hot off the presses, one appeared. Bruce Metzger who was partly responsible for propagating this urban myth at least had the integrity to retract this false accusation in the 3rd edition of his book. Here is the exact quote from Mr. Metzger himself.


"What is said on p. 101 above about Erasmus' promise to include the Comma Johanneum if one Greek manuscript were found that contained it, and his subsequent suspicion that MS 61 was written expressly to force him to do so, needs to be corrected in the light of the research of H. J. DeJonge, a specialist in Erasmian studies who finds no explicit evidence that supports this frequently made assertion." Bruce M. Metzger, The Text of The New Testament, 3rd Edition, p 291 fn 2.

(ibid.)

Then the question is why did Erasmus removed it from his 4th and 5th edition of the Greek NT?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Then the question is why did Erasmus removed it from his 4th and 5th edition of the Greek NT?

I guess Metzger is too much of an amateur to consider that?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Esaias, fair question.

There are many factors examined to determine the probability of the original text. I work tomorrow and I simply do not have the time to detail them all. Aland text would answer all your questions.

I'll check Aland tonight or tomorrow.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I guess Metzger is too much of an amateur to consider that?

even geniuses miss some things.

[FlamingZword]

After further thought I realize that this is basically a settled issue, no Modern Bible has included the Johannine Comma in their editions and it is most likely that future editions of the KJV will eventually follow suit.

It is mostly in the KJV Only crowd that this issue is still alive and defended.

The majority of Christianity, even the Catholic Church, has moved on past this verse and simply rejected it as an interpolation.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

After further thought I realize that this is basically a settled issue, no Modern Bible has included the Johannine Comma in their editions and it is most likely that future editions of the KJV will eventually follow suit. It is mostly in the KJV Only crowd that this issue is still alive and defended. The majority of Christianity, even the Catholic Church, has moved on past this verse and simply rejected it as an interpolation.

This is all nonsense. The Reformation Bibles throughout the world have always carried the heavenly witnesses. The defense of the verse will be strong anywhere that there is a strong Reformation Bible defense (e.g. Puritanboard on the net.) The evidences for the verse as authentic are historical, powerful and massive. The Reformation Bible editions are those that are from the Received Text and are often translated from either Stephanus or Beza editions, which included the heavenly witnesses, Beza including a spirited defense.

What you "realize" is a self-delusion.

Any believer can learn a lot by studying the history of the debate on the heavenly witnesses verse and looking closer at the historical questions, exegetical, grammatical, textual, etc.

Steven Avery

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

This is all nonsense. The Reformation Bibles throughout the world have always carried the heavenly witnesses. The defense of the verse will be strong anywhere that there is a strong Reformation Bible defense (e.g. Puritanboard on the net.) The evidences for the verse as authentic are historical, powerful and massive. The Reformation Bible editions are those that are from the Received Text and are often translated from either Stephanus or Beza editions, which included the heavenly witnesses, Beza including a spirited defense.

What you "realize" is a self-delusion.

Any believer can learn a lot by studying the history of the debate on the heavenly witnesses verse and looking closer at the historical questions, exegetical, grammatical, textual, etc.

Steven Avery

Read my lips, no new bible version includes "The Johannine Comma".

It is a settled issue even in the Catholic Church, so go on your Non-Catholic, Non-Protestant, Non-Christian delusion.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Read my lips, no new bible version includes "The Johannine Comma".

To the extent that this is true (what you mean is "no new version from the corrupt critical text") it is simply one of many reasons not to use the new versions.

[Scott Pitta]

The Johannine Comma is an early reading, but it does not have early widespread manuscript support.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

To the extent that this is true (what you mean is "no new version from the corrupt critical text") it is simply one of many reasons not to use the new versions.

Baloney, that is exactly a good reason to abandon the KJV and use the new versions.