Random Questions Thread

[shag]

Thank you both.



So when somebody’s respond with, “are you telling me that there is no one alive that is or could be a “chosen Jew” that is a descendant of Abraham, or even the 2 Southern tribes?

(Seems a move of desperation…)

Does it then become, how would they prove that they are?

With the rebutle being, “how would you know they’re not”?

“ Well, they say they are so I believe them”

On and on…

I’m sure you’ve been down this road…


(Aside from the TRUE Jew argument in Rom. 2 I mean)

[shag]

In example, I came across this online:


“Do Jewish people know which of the twelve tribes they are from?”



Some of us don’t know, some of us think we know, some of us have family documents handed down from many generations past, but nobody has any family records in writing that stretch all the way back to Biblical times. I present myself as a Levite because my father and his father before him etc. were accepted as Levites and the family name implies it for as far back as we have records. I knew a fellow who said his family knows they’re Benjaminites. How do they know? Well, they know because they’ve always known. Grandpa wouldn’t lie, and his Grandpa certainly wouldn’t lie to him either, and so on. So on for a hundred generations? Maybe. Maybe not.

https://www.quora.com/Do-Jewish-peop...-they-are-from





So it would seem that people that wanna believe there are true descendants around of the day, simply choose to believe it. (To support their unwavering loyalty to “Israel”)



This all somehow reminds me of the 1980s show, “to tell the truth”.
Can the real Jew please stand up

[Amanah]

Genealogy isn't the point. You either need to be grafted in or grafted back into the olive tree.

Romans 11:17-24 ESV
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Thank you both.



So when somebody’s respond with, “are you telling me that there is no one alive that is or could be a “chosen Jew” that is a descendant of Abraham, or even the 2 Southern tribes?

(Seems a move of desperation…)

Does it then become, how would they prove that they are?

At that point, for me, I would suggest a quick Bible study on identifying Israel according to prophecy.

With the rebutle being, “how would you know they’re not”?

“ Well, they say they are so I believe them”

"Why don't you believe Jesus when He warned about people calling themselves Jews but are imposters? And what if I told you there are almost a dozen OTHER tribes of Israel besides Judah? Who and where are they?"

[Amanah]

Maybe this will help as further explanation

New Covenant:

1. Jeremiah 31:31-34: I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
2. Hebrews 8:8-12: Quoting Jeremiah 31, emphasizing the new covenant.

Integration of Israel with Gentiles:

1. Hosea 1:10: "In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called children of the living God."
2. Ephesians 2:11-22: Gentiles brought near through Christ, becoming one body with Israel.
3. Galatians 3:26-29: No distinction between Jew and Gentile in Christ.

Israel's Identity:

1. Romans 9:6-8: Not all physical descendants of Israel are true Israel.
2. Romans 2:28-29: True Jew/Israelite defined by faith, not ethnicity.
3. Galatians 3:7: Those of faith are Abraham's offspring (spiritual Israel).

Gentiles Grafted In:

1. Romans 11:17-24: Gentiles grafted into the olive tree (Israel).
2. Ephesians 2:19: Gentiles now fellow citizens with Israel.

The new covenant encompasses both Judah (physical descendants) and Israel (now largely integrated with Gentiles, with a focus on spiritual identity).

But currently, both Judeans and Israelites are integrated into the gentiles.

[Amanah]

Shag,

This is a book Esaias recommend to me:

End Time Delusions
By Steve Wohlberg

It will answer your questions

[Amanah]

Clarification please.

Revelation is written to the church. The letters in chapters 1-3 are addressed to the churches in Asia Minor. Chapters 4-5 are the inauguration of the new covenant with Israel, the church.

How much of Revelation is about ethnic Jews?
Is the enemy presented in Revelation false Jews in collaboration with Rome?
The beast of the sea, Rome. (Empire)
The beast of the earth, false Jews. (False religion)
Empire and false religion combined, Mystery Babylon?

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Clarification please.

Revelation is written to the church. The letters in chapters 1-3 are addressed to the churches in Asia Minor. Chapters 4-5 are the inauguration of the new covenant with Israel, the church. Revelation was written to the seven churches in Asia that are identified by name

How much of Revelation is about ethnic Jews? The book is all about the cures on Israel of that day
Is the enemy presented in Revelation false Jews in collaboration with Rome? Mostly, yes
The beast of the sea, Rome. (Empire)Yes
The beast of the earth, false Jews. (False religion) The religious system of old Israel
Empire and false religion combined, Mystery Babylon?No "Mystery Babylon," but is "Babylon the great," which was the Old Jerusalem temple worship system...long gone

...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Clarification please.

Revelation is written to the church. The letters in chapters 1-3 are addressed to the churches in Asia Minor. Chapters 4-5 are the inauguration of the new covenant with Israel, the church.

How much of Revelation is about ethnic Jews?

What do you mean by "ethnic Jews"? Do you mean "ethnic The-People-Today-Called-Jews"? Or do you mean "the people actually descended from Jacob"?

The book is about what the rest of the Bible is about - God redeeming and delivering Israel from their enemies through the Messiah, leading to the reformation of all humanity and the restoration of things to the way they were intended.

Is the enemy presented in Revelation false Jews in collaboration with Rome?
The beast of the sea, Rome. (Empire)
The beast of the earth, false Jews. (False religion)
Empire and false religion combined, Mystery Babylon?

The enemy presented in Revelation is a dragon, a beast from the sea, a beast from the earth, a harlot, the kings of the earth, the merchants of the earth, imposters who claim to be Jews, false apostles and teachers in the church, the general population of the wicked, and the spiritual forces motivating all these things.

The beast from the earth is a two horned lamb-like beast, it looked like a lamb but spake as a dragon. This is the entity that "causes everyone to receive a mark". This is the Papal Roman power attempting to keep alive and revive the (western) Roman empire, instituting false Christianity (catholicism) and forcing the world into the Roman form of government and society. One might say the beast from the sea is the Roman political power, and the beast from the earth is the Roman religious power, but I think that would be an oversimplification, even if it works in a very generalised sense. It should be noted that the Papacy is an outgrowth of both pagan and Jewish Gnosticism, and has always had a distinctly rabbinical influence (one of the Papal crowns is adorned with the "star of David" aka the seal of Solomon which is straight out of medieval Jewish kaballah, etc).

The harlot is identified as Jerusalem, and clearly represents the apostate Jewish system which is "riding the (Roman) beast", is propped up by it, and which influences the kings of the earth and their subjects to support the Roman beast system. The concept of "Jews" needs to be understood as including both apostate antichristian Israelites of the Judean hierarchy and religio-political system, as well as those imposters (Revelation 2:9, 3:9) who claim to be Judeans but are not - instead they are the religious antichristian system known as Judaism ("synagogue of satan"), and yes that includes Edomite "Jews" as well as anyone else who adopts the religion of Pharisaism.

There are a lot of players on the field, but ultimately there's only two teams - God's, and satan's.

[Esaias]

One of the biggest problems facing the student of prophecy these days is the over-simplifying of terms and concepts. "Jew", "Rome", "beast", etc are all thought of in overly simplistic terms, and as a result people miss what's going on.

Obviously one doesn't have to be a seminary scholar to understand the basic message of Revelation, but if a student wants to get into the nitty gritty details, they are going to have get into a LOT of nitty gritty details.

On the one hand, there are people who think the "Jews" are a bunch of international bankers who run the entire world and control everything. On another hand there are those who think the Vatican runs everything and the "Jews" are a front. Then there is the "Anglo-Zionist" theory, which asserts the royal families of Great Britain run everything. Then it's the Masons, or the Templars, etc etc etc.

From what I have been able to determine, the Papacy is run by a collection of powerful interests, notably European noble families and European banker families (like the Borgias, the Medicis, and others, who are still around and very powerful). The "Jewish banker elite" like the Rothschilds and related families are not Judeans, but Edomites who are used as the middle-men for managing both Vatican monies and European royal family moneys. The "Masons" and many other similar "secret fraternal societies" are European noble orders of chivalry and related front groups. What we call "government" and "industry" and "finance" is all a front for these various entities and groups. This is why pretty much no matter who gets elected or which party is in power, whether in America, Canada, Europe, or whatever, things stay essentially the same. This is the actual "deep state" that people talk about, although they are mistaken in believing the "deep state" is just the middle management executive and administrative bureaucrats.

There are really only two family lines running everything: Israelite, and Edomite. They collaborate together, in fact intermarry in many cases (many modern European noble families trace their ancestry to Herod or his relatives as well as to the Flavians and other Roman Imperial families). They also squabble with one another. Their various agendas, programs, infighting, collaborations, etc are what we see as "news", "wars", "financial cycles", "political movements", etc. Abraham was destined by God to inherit the world, and his two grandsons, Jacob and Esau, have been fighting over that inheritance pretty much ever since. That is what we call "world history" since at least the time of the Maccabees.

There are ancestral ethnic lines involved in this, there are ideological religious/philosophical lines, and there are financial/money/wealth lines involved in this. They are intermingled and inter-related.

And the "news" and "history" is pretty much entirely fake, meant to brainwash and deceive the masses as to what's actually going on and why.

In the end, though, God's church will triumph, and the whole dominion will be given to the people of the saints of the Most high.