Hierarchies are for the World and not the Church

[Apostolic1ness]

[B][CalledOut238 Brothers you can keep teaching this heretical teaching, but I strongly advise you to reconsider. Our Lord hates this doctrine of blending the world system with his body of believers. You all have been warned and will not be able to plea ignorance at the judgment seat.][/B]

Why do you think you have the right to "warn" anyone about anything. You are a Jew hater. I am warning you that unless the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the HolyGhost you will be led astray by your own hatefulness. you must repent, you are no Apostle or prophet dont try to instruct people as an online pastor of posters. You should take time off and reflect on the damage you are doing to the body by trying to be "the voice of God" to all that read your posts. there is a place at an altar with your name on it, and dont be prideful and in denial just tell God your sorry for hating the people he has chosen to bless to whom are the covenants and blessing. You should really dig deep down and seek forgiveness if its not too late and perhaps God will forgive you for this folly of yours. Ask him to forgive you for causing heartache to your Pastor because he knows there is a man is the congregation that apposes him is his heart (do you warn your Pastor?) poor Man of God I can imagine the sleepless nights he has knowing that at any point you may choose to rake him over the coals about his false heretical beliefs.
There is no place for Jezebel in the church. The less authority you allow the man of God in your life the more authority you place on yourself over him. Who do you think God is going to let win that one? You should give him a call and any others you have made feel like less than called and ask them to forgive you of your error. we are here to help you at any point to realize you need help. Just ask.
SELAH,

[Aquila]

The great whore in the Revelation is God's covenant people in league with the governments of this world. Politics, and political alliances, will always compromise the church.

The church is... the church. The Kingdom of God alive and well. We live for God. The world must choose to obey God and enter the Kingdom by being born again, or suffer eternal torments (or destruction, for you Annihilationist brethren).

We are not called to blend the Gospel with the state or to pass laws. In fact, the church could live as apolitically as possible and still fulfill its kingdom mandate by teaching all that Christ commanded to all who desire to be saved.

We don't work in accordance to, with, or for any of the systems of this world, including its politics.

I know that people will always say, "What about gay marriage?", or, "What about abortion?", or, "What about sinful things in our society?"... but those things are not a part of our Kingdom. They never have been and never will be. Christians don't gay marry. Christians don't abort. Christians seek to live holy lives. Those things are not a part of this Kingdom and we do well to keep it that way. But it seems like we're crowded around the blinds peeking in on the sinners next door trying to find a way to get the force of government to control them. That my friends is void of Holy Spirit. We must keep our own home in order and dig into teachings and experiences of THIS Kingdom. Not try to "Christianize" a fallen world through political efforts. It takes away from preaching the Gospel, which brings true personal change in the ways of the individual.

Just think... if Christians spent as much time, money, and energy into just preaching the Gospel and serving our communities as we do all our political agendas with the GOP... perhaps America wouldn't be in the shape it's currently in.

Get out and preach, share the Gospel, teach others. Don't make an issue of their earthly politics. The Kingdom is... within us.

As for the church and hierarchy... treat it like a family. Allow elders to lead and guide as fathers, mentors, and teachers. I'd say that the only caveat is to hold them to the Word. And if it seems like they are not in the Word, entreat them as fathers and share your concerns. Beyond that... there's no real papacy, etc. Just a spiritual family that makes up a spiritual kingdom.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

... just tell God your sorry for hating the people he has chosen to bless to whom are the covenants and blessing.

God has not chosen the people today known as "Jews" and the covenants and blessing(s) do not belong to them. The people today called "Jews" are not for the most part descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are not Israelites, are not Biblical Israel, and have no rightful claim to anything promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not being a Zionist is not something that requires repentance.

As for brother Ken, while his delivery methods certainly could use some polishing, he HAS emphatically stated that his "issue" is with Zionist and Talmudic and Catholic and Freemasonic ideologies and the people who promote those ideologies. He has repeatedly stated that he doesn't hate anybody, and is fully aware the average Jew, Catholic, and Freemason is being used by various higher-ups, and therefore his antagonism is not directed to anybody's Jewish grandma, catholic aunt, or Freemason uncle.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

You are a Jew hater. I am warning you that unless the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the Holyghost you will be led astray by your own hatefulness. We are here to help you at any point to realize you need help.

You’re speaking with a froward mouth. I wonder if you teach forwardness to your congregation or those here on your weekly sermons? You started it on the (MAGA?) thread calling me an Anti-Semite. Now I am a Jew Hater? I guess the next actor will be the crypto Jesuit Marino defender to follow up? You probably have the star of Remphan flying in your church.

Acts 7:43 (KJV) Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

You’re in bed with the Synagogue of Satan and don’t even know it. How pathetic is that? I hate the Talmudic Judiacs teachings on pedophilia and murdering non-Jews. I have said that I separate the sinner from the sin and the Ideology for the people. If you are to ignorant to understand that concept that is your issue. But to call me fallacious names and then extend a hand of help is moronic.

Proverbs 8:13 (KJV) The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Selah

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No, I said the family unit structure is the basis of all society, including the Kingdom of God and His church. His church is His family. As man is made in the image of God, the human family is modeled on the Divine family. The Levitical priesthood was a temporary situation imposed on Israel until the time of reformation (the new covenant). I honestly think we're talking past one another.

As for Ubuntu and the millennium, I have no idea what that has to do with anything. I like Linux and I'm a premillennialist, but I don't see where either of them have to do with the family structure or church structure nor with the subject of hierarchy. As I pointed out, there is hierarchy in every functional family, including God's. That hierarchy is not secular, and follows rules making it a hierarchy of service and responsibility rather than one of raw power or mere financial control.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No, I said the family unit structure is the basis of all society, including the Kingdom of God and His church. His church is His family. As man is made in the image of God, the human family is modeled on the Divine family. The Levitical priesthood was a temporary situation imposed on Israel until the time of reformation (the new covenant). I honestly think we're talking past one another.

As for Ubuntu and the millennium, I have no idea what that has to do with anything. I like Linux and I'm a premillennialist, but I don't see where either of them have to do with the family structure or church structure nor with the subject of hierarchy. As I pointed out, there is hierarchy in every functional family, including God's. That hierarchy is not secular, and follows rules making it a hierarchy of service and responsibility rather than one of raw power or mere financial control.

I do agree that Our Heavenly Father is the Patriarch of all life and of the Body of Christ. And the family description is a workable concept for the Body of Christ. An example: My Uncle is somebody that I reverence for his wisdom; and listen to his advice, yet he is considered a near kinsman. I would obey his advice not as one who is above me in the family, but rather through respect to his position in the family. Using the analogy of a husband and wife is correct in that Christ is the Husband and we are under his authority as his wife, or the church. But these do not necessarily meet the definition of a hierarchy. Rather both patriarchal and husbandmen as metaphors with our relationship to our creator and savior.

I ran into Ubuntu when studying some works of Michael Tellinger. He is a fascinating archeologist who has found some unique sites. When we discussed some alternative methods if out current system collapsed your outline had some basic principles of this concept of community over government. I would like to see how you fit a hierarchal order with the scriptures of the body in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31? If you want to frame it in family hierarchy that would be just as sufficient.

Ephesians 3:14 (KJV) For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.

Selah

[Evang.Benincasa]

Aquila would love Michael Tellinger

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

I do agree that Our Heavenly Father is the Patriarch of all life and of the Body of Christ. And the family description is a workable concept for the Body of Christ. An example: My Uncle is somebody that I reverence for his wisdom; and listen to his advice, yet he is considered a near kinsman. I would obey his advice not as one who is above me in the family, but rather through respect to his position in the family.

I honestly cannot see the difference between the two bolded parts above. One who is above you in the family is one who has a position in the family. If you respect him as one who is above you in the family, that is the same as respecting him and his position in the family.

Personally, I respect my aunts and uncles precisely because of their position in the family. Some of them are not necessarily people whose advice on certain subjects I would seek out, but their position as uncle or aunt by itself brings a certain amount of obligatory respect.

But then again, I'm quite old fashioned in certain respects. Like medieval, classical, Biblical old fashioned.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

I would like to see how you fit a hierarchal order with the scriptures of the body in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31? If you want to frame it in family hierarchy that would be just as sufficient.

I don't really see a "need to fit a hierarchy" into 1 Cor 12 because I don't see that passage as anti hierarchical. The analogy is made between the church and the human body. Is there a hierarchy, of any kind, in the human anatomy? Yes, quite obviously. Certain organs and systems govern the direction and function of other organs and systems. And, that influence is mutual, because each part contributes to every other part. It is a mutually interdependent system with a functional hierarchy. Interestingly, that hierarchy is flexible, and depends on the situation. In one situation, one system may be providing direction, whereas in another different situation a different organ system or organ will provide direction or "govern the immediate activity of the body". As a representation of the church, the body analogy seems eminently suitable.

As for family, the human body is, essentially, an extended family of related cells, organs, etc. Each with a unique function and role in the body.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila would love Michael Tellinger

Never heard of the guy. Tell me what you know about him.