Suits: Guilt By Association

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

can you tell us what the results of reading the book are? can you tell us what some of the issues are that the reader may look deeper into?

Well, one has to read it for themselves. The result for me was the realization that everyone imagines that the fist century church was nothing like the church today. It was more like a family than a country club with a sermonizing CEO.

Some of the things one might find interesting to study is how the following, as we know them, are human innovations, carry overs from the Law, or are practices originating from pagan culture:

Steeples
Sermons
Large Cathedrals
Altar Calls
Tithing
Dressing up for church
Eucharist
Clergy Attire
Centralized teaching

And the list could go on and on. Yes, even the “sermon” is pagan. Most "sermonizing", as we know it today, is built on Aristotelian rhetoric.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Well, one has to read it for themselves. The result for me was the realization that everyone imagines that the fist century church was nothing like the church today. It was more like a family than a country club with a sermonizing CEO.

Some of the things one might find interesting to study is how the following, as we know them, are human innovations, carry overs from the Law, or are practices originating from pagan culture:

Steeples
Sermons
Large Cathedrals
Altar Calls
Tithing
Dressing up for church
Eucharist
Clergy Attire
Centralized teaching

And the list could go on and on. Yes, even the “sermon” is pagan. Most "sermonizing", as we know it today, is built on Aristotelian rhetoric.

A - Amazing, it is fairly evident that you seek to "demonize" everything that you disagree with in an effort to justify your views.
Sermons are pagan. Right.
Someone should have told Peter, Paul and Stephen.
Paul even sermonized so long that someone fell asleep!

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Amazing, it is fairly evident that you seek to "demonize" everything that you disagree with in an effort to justify your views.
Sermons are pagan. Right.
Someone should have told Peter, Paul and Stephen.
Paul even sermonized so long that someone fell asleep!

Was just going to mention this...

To be fair, Aquila may not have made that list. It could have been Barna and Viola who did.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Amazing, it is fairly evident that you seek to "demonize" everything that you disagree with in an effort to justify your views.
Sermons are pagan. Right.
Someone should have told Peter, Paul and Stephen.
Paul even sermonized so long that someone fell asleep!

That’s from the book. Email the author.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Amazing, it is fairly evident that you seek to "demonize" everything that you disagree with in an effort to justify your views.
Sermons are pagan. Right.
Someone should have told Peter, Paul and Stephen.
Paul even sermonized so long that someone fell asleep!

I didn't say that "sermons" are pagan. I said that the "sermonizing" we are so familiar with today in most modern churches is based on Aristotelian rhetoric.

No one prepared a sermon with an opening, four supporting points, an analogy, and a call to be persuaded, and delivered it the next morning. The NT sermon doesn't know that process nor that format.

They spoke prophetically as the Spirit led them to speak. And, you'll notice that when they spoke, they welcomed questions (Acts 2:37, for example), and addressed the issues and questions brought up by their listeners. It was far from what most think of today when they think of a sermon. Any hairless monkey can write a sermon, they're preached all over America in all denominations on any given Sunday. But NT sermons were more like the Spirit led pleas of street preachers. Not the sophisticated rhetoric of great orators standing atop an ivory pulpit, as they turn the pages of their detailed little notes.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I didn't say that "sermons" are pagan.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Some of the things one might find interesting to study is how the following, as we know them, are human innovations, carry overs from the Law, or are practices originating from pagan culture:

Steeples
Sermons
Large Cathedrals
Altar Calls
Tithing
Dressing up for church
Eucharist
Clergy Attire
Centralized teaching

And the list could go on and on. Yes, even the “sermon” is pagan. Most "sermonizing", as we know it today, is built on Aristotelian rhetoric.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Amazing, it is fairly evident that you seek to "demonize" everything that you disagree with in an effort to justify your views.
Sermons are pagan. Right.
Someone should have told Peter, Paul and Stephen.
Paul even sermonized so long that someone fell asleep!

Ah, let's look at something more closely in the very event you mention where Paul supposedly sermonized so long that someone fell asleep...

Acts 20:7-12 King James Version (KJV)
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

What is the Greek word for "preached" in this verse???

It is, "dialegomai". It is the word form which we get our English word, "dialogue". It means to discuss, to reason with others, to have discourse. Paul wasn't standing there giving a long "sermon" as we think of a sermon. Paul was discussing Scripture with the group well until Midnight, answering questions, pointing out shadows in the OT that were about Jesus, etc.

It wasn't a long oratory presentation. Paul was leading a long discussion about the Scriptures well into the night. It was more like a college professor teaching his material, asking students questions, and taking student's questions in return. ("dialegomai")

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

And the list could go on and on. Yes, even the “sermon” is pagan. Most "sermonizing", as we know it today, is built on Aristotelian rhetoric.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Don't smack me, dude. You claimed you didn't type "sermons." I was just pointing out that not once, but twice, you typed "sermons." So, smack yo self.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Don't smack me, dude. You claimed you didn't type "sermons." I was just pointing out that not once, but twice, you typed "sermons." So, smack yo self.

You're a stickler for the words used, but you know that isn't what I meant. lol