More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine" - Page 13

Michael The Disciple · #**121** 10-22-2017, 07:05 PM

As I pointed out Apostolics who say they reject the light doctrine when it comes to Acts 2:38 DO BELIEVE IN IT when it comes to other doctrines.

So they must feel there is validity to it. BUT....only for Apostolics!

Originalist · #**122** 10-22-2017, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, honestly I would have to say that the ones who wrote the article were motivated because it was an issue for them. Also they would be the best ones to answer your inquiry. Like I said, and Brother Burk also has met a few as well, there are those in our movement who believe that God only judges you on what you know. Like some others posters have referred to Brother Arthur L Clanton's book United We Stand, and Thomas Fudge's Christianity without the Cross. Also Elder Steve Epley could possibly offer some good information on what he knows in Pentecostal history. But, as far as why they wrote the article they would be the best to explain. Everything else would be assumption.

It's reactionary. But this is how it is. These same guys who are clamoring to publically reaffirm their opposition to the light doctrine in public will often tell you off the record things like, "We'll be surprised who is Heaven" or "Holy Ghost filled people whose baptism was flawed will make it", etc etc.

Evang.Benincasa · #**123** 10-22-2017, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

As I pointed out Apostolics who say they reject the light doctrine when it comes to Acts 2:38 DO BELIEVE IN IT when it comes to other doctrines.

So they must feel there is validity to it. BUT....only for Apostolics!

Could you give some examples?

Evang.Benincasa · #**124** 10-22-2017, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

It's reactionary. But this is how it is. These same guys who are clamoring to publicly reaffirm their opposition to the light doctrine in public will often tell you off the record things like, "We'll be surprised who is Heaven" or "Holy Ghost filled people whose baptism was flawed will make it", etc etc.

Personally mind you I haven't had someone who was anti-light doctrine do that sort of a flip flop. Not saying that it couldn't happen, because hypocritical behavior is part and parcel in religions motivated by emotions. I knew some Ruckmanites who never ever would go back on their view that everyone but themselves were lost potatoes. Same thing with all the Sedevacantists I know, they wouldn't even dream of telling me that I might make it to heaven. But, you can't fault them, that is what they believe. I remember years ago a brother who was livid that the Pope at the time made the statement that unless you were Roman Catholic you would bust hell wide open. I told the brother, that is what the Pope is supposed to say. He would be an incredible nut job, and a complete failure as the religious leader of his organization if he thought any different. UPCI believing that anyone who isn't UPCI won't make it to heaven? Bravo! Mormon who believe that we will burn baby burn if we aren't LDS? Cheers! I wouldn't expect anything less. But when an Apostolic points out that a group other than the Apostolic movement is headed for a lake of fire? Then there is an issue?

houston · #**125** 10-22-2017, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you give some examples?

With Light Doctrine a person can be saved without being born again. But in MTD Doctrine you will he lost if you don’t see it exactly as he does.

He can correct me if I am wrong.

Evang.Benincasa · #**126** 10-22-2017, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

With Light Doctrine a person can be saved without being born again. But in MTD Doctrine you will he lost if you don’t see it exactly as he does.

He can correct me if I am wrong.

OK, I can see that.

Michael The Disciple · #**127** 10-23-2017, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you give some examples?

Sure. On end times for starters. My Pastor back in the 80's said the Apostolic Pastor down the road was teaching false doctrine of pre trib rapture. But yet he said he was "a fine brother".

And my same post trib Pastor would be invited to preach at pre trib Churches and they said he's a "fine Apostolic man".

So even tho each group thought the other was teaching major false doctrine they still believed they all were going to Heaven. Why? Because they were Oneness and baptized in Jesus name.

Lets take a test for you Dom. You are a full fledged Preterist. You think its a great truth that Jesus came in 70ad. You think people are not in truth that believe something different.

Michael Blume is a partial pret. He does not believe Jesus came in 70ad. Is he a fine Apostolic brother to you? Even tho he thinks you are teaching error? Is Michael going to inherit eternal life even tho he is teaching (what you think) is false doctrine?

If so do you not believe in the light doctrine? That hes a good brother he just cant see what you are seeing. Or pre tribs on the forum here. Do you believe they are good godly brothers who will have eternal life? Or will they be lost for teaching falsely?

If you think they are going to be in the kingdom then you are a "light" believer, amen?

mfblume · #**128** 10-23-2017, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sure. On end times for starters. My Pastor back in the 80's said the Apostolic Pastor down the road was teaching false doctrine of pre trib rapture. But yet he said he was "a fine brother".

And my same post trib Pastor would be invited to preach at pre trib Churches and they said he's a "fine Apostolic man".

So even tho each group thought the other was teaching major false doctrine they still believed they all were going to Heaven. Why? Because they were Oneness and baptized in Jesus name.

Lets take a test for you Dom. You are a full fledged Preterist. You think its a great truth that Jesus came in 70ad. You think people are not in truth that believe something different.

Michael Blume is a partial pret. He does not believe Jesus came in 70ad. Is he a fine Apostolic brother to you? Even tho he thinks you are teaching error? Is Michael going to inherit eternal life even tho he is teaching (what you think) is false doctrine?

If so do you not believe in the light doctrine? That hes a good brother he just cant see what you are seeing. Or pre tribs on the forum here. Do you believe they are good godly brothers who will have eternal life? Or will they be lost for teaching falsely?

If you think they are going to be in the kingdom then you are a "light" believer, amen?

Jesus did indeed come in 70 AD. Partial preterism teaches that that was a genuine coming according to Matthew 21 and 40. But a localized coming and judgment. But the second coming is yet future. So you can't say I believe Jesus didn't come in 70 AD.

returnman · #**129** 10-23-2017, 07:54 AM

The whole light doctrine is like doing reverse engineering on what is supposed truth and finding the solution incomplete back along the way. It all varies on what your supposed truth is. I think it is part of what Fudge had a hold of when he wrote his book "Christianity without the Cross". Here we have the summation of doctrinal truth and anyone who outwardly deviates has to be considered weak or light on the message. It totally ignores the heart of the individual. Seems like nothing other than legalistic thinking.

mfblume · #**130** 10-23-2017, 07:57 AM

When it comes to light doctrine, and comparing it with difference in prophecy outlooks, light doctrine deals with HOW TO BE SAVED. Prophecy does not deal with HOW TO BE SAVED. Salvation is based in Acts 2:38, and there are interpretations as to how much of that is experienced before salvation.

MTD, do you believe people are lost who do not hold to post trib rapture teaching?