1000 year reign

[Michael The Disciple]

Bro. Blume said:

NO NO NO . Jesus WON THE WAR ALREADY! He sat down forever having CONQUERED and FOUGHT anything he had to fight and conquer. You have it backwards. The war was already won. It's the battles we experience after the fact, today. And they are only battles OF OUR FAITH. Sin is defeated. Satan is defeated. We only FIGHT THE FIGHT OF FAITH now.

Me:

I agree Jesus already has won the warfare he fought with the enemy in his role of the sacrifice lamb. He is now our mediator working in us both to will and do of his good pleasure. He works in us that we may be victorious in this WARFARE.

10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

This warfare continues in the end time:

7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

As God knows all his works from before the world was we can say the war is won by faith. But as the battles go on important things are decided such as who will enter Heaven and who will enter Hell.

10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

[Michael The Disciple]

Are we in the Kingdom of God now or are we still waiting for it? I believe scripture gives a YES answer to both questions. Does the bible teach we are already there?

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom. 14:17

Here we see that THE KINGDOM is in THE HOLY GHOST. The kingdom is established in our hearts initially through receiving The Holy Ghost. As the Holy Ghost Yeshua comes to reign in the heart of the believer. His formerly carnal mind is transformed and enlightened by the Lord enabling him to understand the things of God and to experience them in a fortaste.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. Col.1:13

We see here Paul says entering the kingdom is a present reality for the saints. This is how we can walk in the Spirit and live by faith. We through the indwelling Spirit of Grace can be partakers of THE PROMISES OF GOD. As we by faith claim the promises and trust God to fulfill them we EXPERIENCE the realities of the invisible kingdom. The overcomer is one who has by faith been raised into heavenly places in Christ and walks in that revelation. He knows the word is true and will produce what God says it will produce.

Let us look at what Paul says in Ephesians about this same truth.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph. 1:12-14

Notice that as great as this Holy Ghost experience is Paul says it is just "the earnest" of a fuller inheritance!
Yes walking by faith and seeing the promises of God come true along with his lovingkindness is the most wonderful experience MORTAL MAN can know.

So yes I believe the Christian is in THE KINGDOM NOW.
However Christian friend what we are talking about here is JUST THE DOWNPAYMENT OF SOMETHING GREATER.

The apostle says the Christian should come to the following experience.

And have tasted of the good word of God and THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME. Heb.6:5

See what I am saying? The Holy Spirit in our lives allows us a FORTASTE OF THE POWERS OF THE COMING KINGDOM. This is great but NOT ALL GOD HAS FOR HIS CHILDREN!

YET TO COME!

Does the bible teach that the Christian is YET TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor.6:8-11

Here the apostle warns saints of God if they commit unrighteousness they WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING AND HIS KINGDOM. 2 Tim.4:1

Here the apostle connects the kingdom with the future return
of Yeshua.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the EVERLASTING KINGDOM of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Here another apostle says to saints IF they are diligent to follow the Lord, THEN THEY SHALL BE GRANTED AN ENTRANCE INTO THE EVERLASTING KINGDOM.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood CANNOT INHERIT the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor.15:50-53

Here we see most convincing proof that we have yet to enter the KINGDOM OF GOD! Are you still flesh and blood? If so you have not yet ENTERED THE KINGDOM.

What we have here is not contradictions but God in his goodness allowing men a taste of his kingdom NOW IN THIS LIFE but then at his coming WE RECEIVE FULL ENTRANCE INTO THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM INCLUDING IMMORTALITY.

Let us rejoice that both of these truths are true.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night[/B].

Can you reconcile these two scriptures. Thanks.

John 12:28-32 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard [it], said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

[Bowas]

Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

If a 40 day rain destroyed the entire Earth, imagine what a 1000 year reign would do.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Can you reconcile these two scriptures. Thanks.

John 12:28-32 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard [it], said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

Reading my post today at 3:22 pm would help to start.

Can you reconcile the same scripture:

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

With this one:

4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

Sometimes things happen that are previews of even bigger things yet to come.

Jesus defeated the prince of this world. He was put to death. End of story. The devil is happy. NOT! Three days later Jesus raised himself from the dead!
In doing this he broke the devils hold on death.

14: Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb. 2:14

This was THE BEGINNING OF THE END for satan. His casting out was certain BY FAITH but it still is being accomplished in full measure by the obedience of the Saints.

In a measure he was cast out (defeated) in John 12. He will suffer further loss when he is cast down from Heaven in Rev. 12. He will suffer further loss than that when he is shut up in the pit for 1000 years in Rev. 20. He will suffer the ultimate defeat (casting out) when he is cast into the lake of fire.

[Michael The Disciple]

Bro Blume said:

No, there it is to understood properly or not. If it is a 1000 years after the church age, then it conflicts with other scriptures. But if it represents the church age, then there is no conflict with other scriptures.

Me:

The problem is in what way do these scriptures REPRESENT the Church age?

1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev. 20:1-6

Michael you make a great issue out of the "binding" of satan. As if we should now be reigning over nations. Yet the other aspect of these verses that are supposed to REPRESENT the Church age shows Saints having their heads cut off because of their stand for Christ.

If Saints are reigning over NATIONS how is it that the rulers of this world are beheading the Saints?

Not one nation has ever been ruled over by a Saint or Saints in the Church age. But we are told in prophecy that we will REIGN WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.

A lot of difference. You name any Jesus name Christian that has ever lived for 1000 years in the Church age?

Where is the evidence that the 1000 years are not to be understood as they are written?

Where is the evidence that the saints will NOT reign for a thousand years after our Lord returns?

Where is the evidence the devil will NOT be bound for a thousand years after our Lord returns?

Where is the evidence, I ask?

[Michael The Disciple]

What role do the saved have to play after the resurrection? Gods word gives us more than just speculation to go by.

Daniel saw this:

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Daniel 7:18-22

Paul said this:

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1 Cor. 6:2-3

John saw this:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev. 20:4

Jesus said:

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev. 2:25-27

It seems to be a consistent theme that after the resurrection saints will (under Christ) be made rulers of the Earth. That is certainly a glorious reward!

Matter of fact besides ruling with Jesus Christ over the nations I find no evidence of ANY OTHER THING scripture specifically says we will do after the resurrection!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

Where is the evidence that the 1000 years are not to be understood as they are written?

Where is the evidence that the saints will NOT reign for a thousand years after our Lord returns?

Where is the evidence the devil will NOT be bound for a thousand years after our Lord returns?

Where is the evidence, I ask?

If you would answer my questions, then you would see the evidence. Please respond to my thoughts that state in order for Col 2 to say Jesus spoiled the devil, then Jesus must have first bound him according to Christ's words about spoiling and binding.

If the 1000 year reign does not symbolize the church age then there is a conflict with otther scriptures.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Thank you for your response. I can't quite get the binding idea in my mind. Especially when I read the Book of Job. The Devil had boundaries he had to keep and needed permission from God to take any type of action. So, I see him having boundaries from all time, even in the Garden.


This scripture which MTD posted reflects - a bottomless pit, shut up and sealed. That sounds like a total binding.

Could you go a little further in your thinking on this? Thanks!

I think everyone is missing the aspect I am struggling to point us towards.

1) Did Jesus spoil the devil? Yes or no.

(YES)

2) Did Jesus say you cannot do that unless you first bind him? Yes or no.

(YES)

3) Does this mean Jesus bound the devil? Yes or no.

(YES)

I hope that makes it clearer. This is the binding in Rev 20.

MTB is saying the binding in Rev 20 is NOT the same binding by the cross, now that he sees my point. BUt I am asking...

1) How many times does Jesus have to bind the devil?

2) Why say the binding in Rev 20 is not the binding by the cross?

3) Why does Rev 20 only say the devil is loosed to DO ONE THING (namely gather the nations against the church), if the binding prohibited from doing ANYTHING?