Why men hate church

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree to a lot of what you're saying.

I want to consider something though... it's only been within the past century that a more liberal notion of male authority has come into the home and church. 300 hundred years ago... a man would have been expected to "straighten" his wife or children out. And it was something shameful if he didn't. Even some black and white classic movies show men slapping their frantic and irrational wives. Today... that would be a major no no.

Well, sometimes people just need to step up and do what needs to be done!

[Aquila]

I had a neighbor who was a great guy... but man... he'd drink drink drink. As soon as he was home from work he started drinking. I was talking to him one night out on the porch and I asked him why he every day. He explained that if he didn't... he'd be doing those things he had to do like the lawn, maintenance on the car, fixing the plumbing in the basement, etc... and on top of that he'd have to do the dishes, mop the floors, vacuum the carpets, clean the bathroom etc.... while the Mrs. just sat there going over the A-B-C with the kids 300 times. lol

So... when he drinks... she leaves him alone after he gets the "men's work" done and manages her duties. lol

I don't advocate drinking... but some women are like that. I commend men that work, do the dirty jobs, heavy jobs, and the house work. Nothing wrong with it. But not all men are wired that way. Sometimes you have to find a way to set boundaries.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Well, sometimes people just need to step up and do what needs to be done!

LOL!

You ain't right! LOL

But you gave me a thought... what if half the "domestic violence" and "menacing" charges brought up against men are men instinctively trying to get their homes back on line???

What if the way things were for thousands of years accommodates our actual design?

Not advocating beating one's wife and kids... just thinking about the image of a strong male figure that truly does rule his house well.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Justin

Today's music is catered to women... "Hold me in your arms" "take me to that secret place"

There are more. All these "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs need to go. I mean, you could sing a lot songs as worships songs as well as songs to your loved one. They're interchangeable.

"I'm desperate for you" "You're all I want and ever needed"

No songs that maginify the Name of Jesus, no songs that glorify the majesty and attributes of God, no songs much about the blood. It's all touchy feely now.

[Aquila]

My major gripe is that without the ability to use authority... whatever the office is... one is just a figurehead for the actual authority. Again, imagine a police force without the ability to use force. Imagine a President who is elected and directed in his decisions by some secretive special interest. If someone in authority cannot take that authority and use it, possibly breaking a few eggs... is it real authority???

And so my association with Islam goes like this... the Qur'an and Islam seems to institutionalize this in it's law code. It honors men. It honors their authority. It honors their strength. It honors their desires. It honors men. Now, a lot of "traditional" customs prevail in Islamic countries. Those abuses are typically not found in the Qur'an or orthodox Islam. Islam gives a woman the right to divorce. Islam religiously codifies that women can own their own property. Islam provides a process for disciplining one's home (admonishment, separation/cold shoulder, and lastly corporal discipline). In Islamic societies Islam delivers to men. Even in divorce a woman keeps her things, her dowry, and the kids until like 9 years old. Then fathers are admonished to take their male children and raise them. Right or wrong... in many ways it delivers to men. Muslim Americans are gearing up to draft proposals for Islamic courts to manage issues relating to Islamic citizens. Now, I have some Constitutional problems with that. But again, they will be delivering to the faithful men among their number. What does the Church do in America for Christian men??? As a man... I don't really see anything of substance other than an ethic that only works if everyone in the home agrees. We go on men's retreats, talk about an illusive "headship" that never materializes in our homes if our wives aren't on board, beat on drums, and sleep outside. The church offers... a camping trip? LOL Will a camping trip really put a man back in the order that God COMMANDS that he be in? If the wife is humble and on board... it might work. But I pity the man who comes home from the men's retreat and finds that the dishes haven't been done all weekend. Dollars to doughnuts he's going to be told to do them... even if he wants to rest his back from hiking and sleeping on the ground all weekend. lol

So... is it any wonder why men don't find the church relevant to their lives and concerns?

Please understand... these are just thoughts on the subject.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

"I'm desperate for you" "You're all I want and ever beeded"

No songs that maginify the Name of Jesus, no songs that glorify the majesty and attributes of God, no songs much about the blood. It's all touchy feely now.

Amen. And few songs about the absolute power of God against wickedness.

I like the Psalms of David... imagine, as a man, worshiping to something like this...

Save Me, O My God

A Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son.

Psalms 3:1-8 (ESV)
1 O Lord, how many are my foes!
Many are rising against me;
2 many are saying of my soul,
there is no salvation for him in God. Selah


3 But you, O Lord, are a shield about me,
my glory, and the lifter of my head.
4 I cried aloud to the Lord,
and he answered me from his holy hill. Selah


5 I lay down and slept;
I woke again, for the Lord sustained me.
6 I will not be afraid of many thousands of people
who have set themselves against me all around.


7 Arise, O Lord!
Save me, O my God!
For you strike all my enemies on the cheek;
you break the teeth of the wicked.


8 Salvation belongs to the Lord;
your blessing be on your people! Selah

God used to be a God who arose and broke the faces of the wicked. Today... he's as soft as the mall Santa.

Imagine a God who symbolically portrays His passion for His people as a lover fantasizes about ravishing His beloved in ways that would make most churches blush (Song of Solomon).

Today... God is almost divorced from everything truly masculine. He's a "Father"... However, even His Father hood is emphasized as being warm and fuzzy... we don't see the Father who will slam the doors when angry and shake the rafters. We don't see the Father who hears a noise and grabs the shotgun in preparation to blow any threat to his family out of existence. In a way... like the men of the Church... God's been feminized... or perhaps softened is a better word. People gasp at the "Allah" of Islam... but he seems to have a lot more in common with the God of the Bible than what is portrayed in most contemporary churches.

[n david]

Our God is greater, our God is stronger
God, You are higher than any other
Our God is healer, awesome in power
Our God, our God

And if our God is for us
Then who could ever stop us?
And if our God with us
Then what can stand against?

.

[Aquila]

In short... I see men wanting a deal. Give us something we can truly walk away with that changes our lives and the structure of our families. Give us something that brings back honor and respect to manhood. Not the manhood propagated by pop-psychology. True BIBLICAL manhood and headship. Sadly... with America's culture today... I don't see how the church can deliver even if it had an idea on what to deliver.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Our God is greater, our God is stronger
God, You are higher than any other
Our God is healer, awesome in power
Our God, our God

And if our God is for us
Then who could ever stop us?
And if our God with us
Then what can stand against? .

That comes close. Give me details. Sometimes I want to hear about God driving a hook through their jaws and dragging them along the mountain range. I want to hear about how David didn't merely "slay" the giant. I want to know that David blasted him in the forehead with a stone, mounted his chest, and cut off his lifeless head with his own sword just so David could taunt the enemies of God with it. lol

And how in all that... David was imperfect (much like us)... a worshiper... and considered by God as a man after His own heart.

I want to know that my instincts, my desires, and my sense of being a male is truly valued. Sometimes... I feel like my time is wasted as the church panders to the notion of manhood, headship, and fatherhood.

[n david]

Through You, I can do anything
I can do all things
Cause it's You who gives me strength
Nothing is impossible
Through You, blind eyes are open
Strongholds are broken
I am living by faith
Nothing is impossible

.