To tithe or not to tithe? - Page 13

Praxeas · #**121** 03-07-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Many people find time to go and visit and pray with a shut in or sick in the hospital.

Sure they do but as I said not full time. They can't do that while working or taking care of other needs like their family

AreYouReady? · #**122** 03-07-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

"In general" : Because of the abortion, homosexual, pornography and other government approved issues.

I agree. Government approval is the key word here.

Dordrecht · #**123** 03-07-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

...probably because everyone else is working full time with a wife, kids and a home to take care of?

Exactly....and that's not the way God intended a family unit to be.
Women should be home taking care of the family.
Husband should be out working.

Are you surprised so many children are messed up?
Half the couples I know are not even married.

Children these days are kept busy with electronic gadgets and
mom and dad think it's just fine.....another babysitter!

Satan out to destroy the family unit.....next is the town.....next is the district.....next is the state.....next is the country....

Be aware what's happening out there! A great falling away.

AreYouReady? · #**124** 03-07-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Sure they do but as I said not full time. They can't do that while working or taking care of other needs like their family

If the people offered visitation so that it did not burden one man, they still have time to take care of family needs.

This is a fact Prax.

The trouble is, people don't want to do as Christ said we should do in Matthew 25. They rather pay someone to do this than to actively participate in this?

Dordrecht · #**125** 03-07-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

If the people offered visitation so that it did not burden one man, they still have time to take care of family needs.

This is a fact Prax.

The trouble is, people don't want to do as Christ said we should do in Matthew 25. They rather pay someone to do this than to actively participate in this?

It's called apathy.
They rather hang around the TV watching garbage from Hollywood.

Praxeas · #**126** 03-07-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

If the people offered visitation so that it did not burden one man, they still have time to take care of family needs.

This is a fact Prax.

The trouble is, people don't want to do as Christ said we should do in Matthew 25. They rather pay someone to do this than to actively participate in this?

The fact is if the people are working 8 to 12 hours a day they can't do visitation while they are working...right?

And some of those people have to go pick up kids from school or the baby sitter, buy groceries, make sure their kids are doing homework etc etc etc and so they can't be full time workers. That is a fact AreYouReady.

Pilgrum · #**127** 03-07-2013, 03:23 PM

Apostolic definition of "principle": The basis of doctrines that have no biblical backing or support.

Praxeas · #**128** 03-07-2013, 03:28 PM

Dictionary.com's definition of idiot

1.Informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2.Psychology . (no longer in technical use; considered offensive) a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

AreYouReady? · #**129** 03-07-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The fact is if the people are working 8 to 12 hours a day they can't do visitation while they are working...right?

And some of those people have to go pick up kids from school or the baby sitter, buy groceries, make sure their kids are doing homework etc etc etc and so they can't be full time workers. That is a fact AreYouReady.

Did I say they were to go on visitation during working hours???? Or one person should take the time out every day to visit when there are many in the body???

Most people do have to do the things you posted above Prax.

All I am saying is that all the people should want to share in the duties of the ministry because we are all supposed to be ministers in the word and in deed. To delegate and pay one man to do all of the physical and spiritual work of the local church body is quite frankly....stupid. A congregation will work a poor man to death because they are paying him and get sloppy lazy on their own commitments to the Lord.

But since people want to do it that way...that is ok with me. I get tired of hearing all of the bellyaching about the lack of tithing and the disproportionate amount of work for one man when there are so many different ways the body of Christ can work together to labor in the Lord.

DaveC519 · #**130** 03-07-2013, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

That is great. You are a minority. There are a few in my region, but these are not in the upci.

Hello AreYouReady,

I'm not UPCI, either, but I am Apostolic.

Quote:

Paul never commanded tithes despite what you say. Paul certainly never cursed another for not paying tithes.

In 1Cor 9:14, the root Greek word translated as "ordained" in the KJV is diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

The bottom line is that what Paul is conveying in vs. 14 he's conveying as a command. While it is true Paul did not in this passage associate a curse with disobedience, it is a general biblical principle that every commandment from God contains both a blessing and a cursing.

Quote:

Paul taught certain things including.....What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
(I Corinthians 9:18)

In fact, lets just use the same verses you all use when you try to prove a NT tithe.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

As I mentioned earlier a few posts back, although Paul did not exercise his right to ministerial support, he by no means abrogated that right. In fact, the whole point of the passage from vs. 1-14 is that he (and Barnabbas) specifically had a right to it. For us to say otherwise is to render his point moot.

Quote:

Cheerful NT giving does not specify who to give it to. Ya'll just assume that it must go to the pastor.

I believe that every command in Scripture should be obeyed cheerfully. There is some NT giving which is voluntary- 2Cor 9 for example- and some which is obligatory- such as 1Cor 9.