If Salvation is a absolute free gift.. - Page 13

JamDat · #**121** 03-25-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Some have let the doctrine of grace override our responsibility to choose to walk in grace.. It seems free will is disappearing and being overrided by salvation. Thats what I am getting from it.

If someone says we can do nothing to keep our salvation, they don't believe sin will eventually cause us to lose it. I wish they were right but the Bible is clear, we must repent in any sin we are in. We must choose to turn away.

Someone needs to stand up for the doctrine of free will!

Wrong. I say I can do nothing to earn it or keep it. That I must be born again. If I continue in my flesh and not in the Spirit was I born again to begin with? Just because one says they are saved because they did a,b,c doesn't mean they are. How can we tell for sure? I don't think I can know if someone else is for sure because I can't look into them, but I do know that if a branch is grafted into the olive tree then that branch will produce fruit. So there are signs to me which would indicate one being saved. Yet there are still wolves dressed like us out there isn't there?

mfblume · #**122** 03-25-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamDat

If I continue in my flesh and not in the Spirit was I born again to begin with?

I would like to answer that question, and say yes, we were still born again whether we continue in the flesh or not. Continuing in the Spirit must be taught. It cannot and will not come automatically just because one is born again. For that reason, Romans 8:1 says that there is only no condemnation to those IN CHRIST JESUS who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. This means we can be in Christ but not walking after the Spirit. And if we do not learn how to walk after the Spirit, at best we will struggle all our lives, but at worst we will backslide.

onefaith2 · #**123** 03-25-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I would like to answer that question, and say yes, we were still born again whether we continue in the flesh or not. Continuing in the Spirit must be taught. It cannot and will not come automatically just because one is born again. For that reason, Romans 8:1 says that there is only no condemnation to those IN CHRIST JESUS who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. This means we can be in Christ but not walking after the Spirit. And if we do not learn how to walk after the Spirit, at best we will struggle all our lives, but at worst we will backslide.

Exactly, being born again doesn't make us robots that automatically choose Christ in everything we do. Romans 7 shows clearly the battle we still have in our flesh. But if we walk after the Spirit, we will be victorious over our lusts. I'm ready to make that choice everyday!

mfblume · #**124** 03-25-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Exactly, being born again doesn't make us robots that automatically choose Christ in everything we do. Romans 7 shows clearly the battle we still have in our flesh. But if we walk after the Spirit, we will be victorious over our lusts. I'm ready to make that choice everyday!

Amen and amen!!!

JamDat · #**125** 03-25-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I would like to answer that question, and say yes, we were still born again whether we continue in the flesh or not. Continuing in the Spirit must be taught. It cannot and will not come automatically just because one is born again. For that reason, Romans 8:1 says that there is only no condemnation to those IN CHRIST JESUS who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. This means we can be in Christ but not walking after the Spirit. And if we do not learn how to walk after the Spirit, at best we will struggle all our lives, but at worst we will backslide.

I'm not saying messing up here and there. I'm saying continuing in a lifestyle of sin like what our former selves would have. I agree that we have to be taught by the Holy Ghost, the word, and the church.

mfblume · #**126** 03-25-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamDat

I'm not saying messing up here and there. I'm saying continuing in a lifestyle of sin like what our former selves would have. I agree that we have to be taught by the Holy Ghost, the word, and the church.

I agree that continual sinking into sin and a lifestyle would indicate the person likely never got saved. Those truly saved DO NOT WANT to sin, although they may be tempted and fail.

JamDat · #**127** 03-25-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree that continual sinking into sin and a lifestyle would indicate the person likely never got saved. Those truly saved DO NOT WANT to sin, although they may be tempted and fail.

Amen.

onefaith2 · #**128** 03-25-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamDat

I'm not saying messing up here and there. I'm saying continuing in a lifestyle of sin like what our former selves would have. I agree that we have to be taught by the Holy Ghost, the word, and the church.

then you still believe in free will. You have to choose to follow the Holy Ghost or else will fall deep into sin. So there is something we have to do. Its a choice. That comes from the Spirit's drawing, but we have to do it.

JamDat · #**129** 03-25-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

then you still believe in free will. You have to choose to follow the Holy Ghost or else will fall deep into sin. So there is something we have to do. Its a choice. That comes from the Spirit's drawing, but we have to do it.

He showed me through the law that I was hopeless and that He had paid the price for my sin. It was my choice to surrender and out of thankfulness I will seek holiness. I am not saved by anything I did and Christ is not a life enhancement for me. So after semantics I may agree with you, but I will not agree that it cost me anything.

I used to think I paid a price in giving up my old life, but the more I thought about it the more I realized maybe I was using Christianity as a life enhancer. Jesus was better than the alcohol, Jesus would fill the pain of my childhood, Jesus would do this and that for me.

Then amazing grace found me and this wretch was saved. He took on the full wrath of God that was meant for me. Being nailed to a tree is what we tend to feel bad about for Christ, but it's what we couldn't see, what I could not imagine and what I will never know about towards me, that is what we need to understand. The wrath of God meant for us being poured out on Christ for our sake.

Socialite · #**130** 03-25-2011, 05:30 PM

So how often is it that someone struggles with the same sin that they "were never a believer?" What room in your theology is there for someone who, while not giving up in the battle, has struggled off-and-on with sin their whole lives?

BTW, the idea of sin as an event is false. Sin is in our very thoughts, and this is what Jesus taught, trying to bring the legalistic Pharisees down a notch. (You may not have slept with the women, but you thought it in your heart, etc).

As one poster put it:
When we fall into patterns of disobedience, what we need is a greater understanding of grace, not a governor on grace. God's infinite happiness with us motivates our obedience to him; our obedience to him doesn't motivate his infinite happiness with us. When our personal improvement becomes the goal of our Christian life, we get worse not better. Real spiritual progress is seen first, not by what we do, but by how deeply we rest in what's already been done.