Was Jesus born again?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

No I don't believe I will be punished for Adam's sin. I believe I would be punished for my sin that I committed by my own free will.

Where did you get that I cannot believe Christ makes us righteous without works? I love how you put words in my mouth when I have said no such thing.

Consider this. Paul said that by the same token that Adam made us sinners, Christ makes us righteous. If you do not feel Adam's sin would cause you to be judged before your salvation out of Adam, then Paul's words about Christ imputing us with righteousness cannot be true either. I did not put words in your mouth, but gave the natural conclusion your view about Adam forces one to conclude, either consciously or not.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Since we are judged by our works (not our parents or even adam), I don't. As a baby I never worked a sin till I was able to work that sin. Adam's sin to me caused us all to fall into sin because that gave us a SIN nature, not already committed sins.

I would agree. I would not though say he gave us a 'sin nature" but a nature without God leads to sin because it is a biological system in that we realize pleasure and pain and in that we choose what we like or not. God which is a Spiritual law unto our member by divine revelation and not of flesh is foreign to the law or order of the flesh to know righteousness. The term Sin nature can mean many things so to me it needs to be qualified to what one means by using it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Christ makes us righteous because we have sinned, not because our very flesh is sinful and that we are born already committing sins.

What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?

I said that the IMPUTATION of righteousness upon us is identical in principle to the imputation of Adam's sin upon us. Otherwise, why did Paul say we have to die even though we did not commit the sin Adam committed?

If there is no sin, there is no need for a sacrifice of that sin. Since everyone sins as some point or another, Christ died to make everyone righteous.

That is beside the point. The point is that by the same token that God imputed us with righteousness is the way we were imputed with Adam's sin. Paul said it, not me.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is not the same WAY, obviously. But this passage is NOT talking about our future resurrection. Again, read Ro 6:13.

13 Neither give ye your members arms of wickedness to sin, but give ye yourselves to God, as they that live of dead men, and your members arms of rightwiseness to God.


13Neither yield your members instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but yield yourselves to God as alive from among [the] dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God.



13 neither present your members unto sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


13Never offer any part of your body to sin’s power. No part of your body should ever be used to do any ungodly thing. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have come back from death and are now alive. Offer all the parts of your body to God. Use them to do everything that God approves of.


So I read different translations of this verse, still not getting that. As alive from the dead is bringing again a similarity. Deadness live unto sin, aliveness live unto God. This verse is all about our works, doing good or evil. Yielding to good or evil. People dead in trespasses live like dead people, people alive in Christ are to live like resurrected people.

That doesn't say we ARE resurrected.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

13 Neither give ye your members arms of wickedness to sin, but give ye yourselves to God, as they that live of dead men, and your members arms of rightwiseness to God.


13Neither yield your members instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but yield yourselves to God as alive from among [the] dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God.



13 neither present your members unto sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


13Never offer any part of your body to sin’s power. No part of your body should ever be used to do any ungodly thing. Instead, offer yourselves to God as people who have come back from death and are now alive. Offer all the parts of your body to God. Use them to do everything that God approves of.


So I read different translations of this verse, still not getting that. As alive from the dead is bringing again a similarity. Deadness live unto sin, aliveness live unto God. This verse is all about our works, doing good or evil. Yielding to good or evil. People dead in trespasses live like dead people, people alive in Christ are to live like resurrected people.

That doesn't say we ARE resurrected.

Sorry, we are alive INDEED from the dead and must present ourselves to God in that manner in order to have the faith for us to be empowered against committing sin, which is the very thing a prominent minister whom I mentioned to you in another thread did not agree was possible. What do you think INDEED in verse 11 is relating?

Paul's words are hard to be understood, and this is definitely one of those instances.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?

I said that the IMPUTATION of righteousness upon us is identical in cause to the imputation of Adam's sin upon us. Otherwise, why did Paul say we have to die even though we did not commit the sin Adam committed?
.

Because we have to die due to the sin we have committed. Adam's sin was transgression against God and so is ours. Its the same premise, not the same sin.

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is beside the point. The point is that by the same token that God imputed us with righteousness is the way we were imputed with Adam's sin. Paul said it, not me.

No we are not imputed with Adam's sin. We are imputed with a sin nature. When we sin, we identify with Adam and are dead in trespasses. Christ worked to arouse up out of that death because HE knew all of us would sin in our life, just like Adam did.

Mike its like me and you are reading a totally different bible from each other lol

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Consider this. Paul said that by the same token that Adam made us sinners, Christ makes us righteous. If you do not feel Adam's sin would cause you to be judged before your salvation out of Adam, then Paul's words about Christ imputing us with righteousness cannot be true either. I did not put words in your mouth, but gave the natural conclusion your view about Adam forces one to conclude, either consciously or not.

False doctrine of Original sin videos and many others...

Jesse Morrell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yLE...eature=related

Kerrigan Skelly


http://www.youtube.com/refutingcalvi...14/pGnxqjyjrcQ

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

False doctrine of Original sin videos and many others...

Jesse Morrell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yLE...eature=related

Kerrigan Skelly

http://www.youtube.com/refutingcalvi...14/pGnxqjyjrcQ

Wow, I am amazed you call this false doctrine. Wow.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry, we are alive INDEED from the dead and must present ourselves to God in that manner in order to have the faith for us to be empowered against committing sin, which is the very thing a prominent minister whom I mentioned to you in another thread did not agree was possible. What do you think INDEED in verse 11 is relating?

Paul's words are hard to be understood, and this is definitely one of those instances.

Well lets quote Romans 6:11

Romans 6:11 (King James Version)

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:11 (English Standard Version)
11So you also must consider yourselves(A) dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

11 In the same way, you should see yourselves as being dead to the power of sin and alive with God through Christ Jesus.


11So also *ye*, reckon yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

11 So [and] ye deem yourselves to be dead [soothly] to sin, but living to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.



Seems Paul's intent in this verse is to show us how we should view our position, dead to sin and alive to Christ. Thats a mindset that goes with Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind and this also flows with Paul's discussion in Romans 8.. IF we walk after the Spirit, we will not fufill the lusts of the flesh. Therefore to reckon yourselves dead to sin is in fact a mindset that we must have everyday. We were freed from the power of sin in baptism but we still have to renew our mind and reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ thereafter.

[onefaith2]

Definition of Original Sin

Original sin,[1] is, according to a doctrine proposed in Christian theology, humanity's state of sin resulting from the Fall of Man.[2] This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature," to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt by all humans through collective guilt.[3

So this doctrine has been viewed as either a sin nature or automatic guilt.