Hell's Best Kept Secret? Ray Comfort

[SDG]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

What people need to repent from is from godlessness....yeah, that very subtle sin that goes unnoticed....there are many good samaritans that are good nature people, they volunteer in their community, they give to worthy causes....they are living with peaches and apple pie....there is nothing ugly looking about their life....but when they find out about their separation from God and that the only way to enter eternal life is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ...they realize that their "goodness" and "good samaritan" way of life is not enough to enter heaven....then they need to start making some important decisions!


Too many people think they are good...that the good things they do is enough....we need to reject this self-righteous and self-centered living! We need to look at the cross to understand where our righteousness comes from!


People need to understand and be aware of godlessness....a life lived on ones own rather than centered on Christ.

Godlessness is one of the many sins people must repent of ...

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

My focus with sinners is to shine like a lamp on a stand so that they marvel at God because of what they see in me....the Jesus they will see is the Jesus they see in me...that is what will attract them...that is, it will attract those who are thirsty for something better, when they recognize that their approach on living life on their own has failed miserably...many love to choose their perdition, that is what they want...in the meantime, let's shine for those that are thirsty for something better and do not want what life is offering them.

Originally Posted by crakjak

"...so that they may SEE our good works and glorify our Father in Heaven..."

Lotsa folks would love to be a Christian if the could just see some authentic Christians in their world being Christians.

Originally Posted by crakjak

There are certainly occasions that it is appropriate to do so, but I believe if believers are equipped to LIVE authentically Christian it will not be required so much as has become the custom.

My administrative assistant and her husband were RC when she first came to work for us. After several months, on a Monday morning she came in bawling like a baby. I thought someone had died or hubby had left, no she says, "I don't know what you and your wife have, but I know it is God and I want Him so badly". Today, 28 years later, she her husband and their son are still serving the Lord that she found that day.

I just wish we could see that much more often, but I can tell you of several others that came the same way.

Our daily prayer is, "...Lord may we see where you are working today and join you in what you are doing...? "May I hear your voice today and understand what your are saying, that I may be usable in your purpose in my world today?"

1 Peter 3: "...Then, even if some refuse to obey the Good News, your godly lives will speak to them without any words. They will be won over by observing your pure and reverent lives."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.

1 Peter 1:25 - But the word of the Lord remains forever.” And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.

So, here we see that Peter is talking to Believers and Saints of God. Then he continues:

1 Peter 2:1 - So get rid of all evil behavior. Be done with all deceit, hypocrisy, jealousy, and all unkind speech. Like newborn babies, you must crave pure spiritual milk so that you will grow into a full experience of salvation. Cry out for this nourishment, now that you have had a taste of the Lord’s kindness.

And yet he felt he still needed to admonish these Believers and Saints to get rid of evil behavior (SINNING). You ask if I am a sinner, well friend, you and I both have to die daily to our propensity to sin! Do you think you are living in perfect purity or is it that as you strive to walk in the spirit you are battling with the flesh that wishes to snuff you and cause you to sin? What wretched men we are, huh? Who will save us from this body of death? BUT THANKS BE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD....So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


SOMEONE PLEASE POINT ME TO THE CROSS!!!!

You seem to have just missed my point completely. We POINT sinners to the cross! How do we do that? We point out WHY they need the cross...because they are sinners. I was not implying you were a sinner. I was pointing out you are missing the point of this thread....HOW do we reach sinners? I never said we don't preach against sin to believers. Again that just shows you are missing the point entirely.

We LEAD sinners to Christ....Paul said the LAW was our school master, leading us to Christ. Paul said he had not known sin BUT by the law. Believers don't need to be lead TO Christ. They need to remain with Christ.

AGain the topic here is HOW to win people to the Lord and TRUE and FALSE conversion....NOT "what happens after conversion" or "How to preach to a believers"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Godlessness is one of the many sins people must repent of ...

Amen, but least anyone forget, the topic is not How to convert the converted....it's TRUE and FALSE conversion...in other words it's about what we preach to the sinners.

Law to the proud and grace to the humble

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I have heard him in the past, but didn't pay much attention, but the other day I was watching one of notable religious channels and Ray was teaching on false converts (basically people in church that don't bear any fruit of righteousness), boy I took notice and started taking notes. Profound and powerful. I made an outline of it to share with my church! I needed to discover the art of deep repentance, and when people experience that and stay there it makes good disciples. Also it exposes the fallacy of the doctrine that come to Jesus because he will make you happy,give you purpose, fullfill your deepest longings, etc., instead he will save you from your sins.

Originally Posted by J-Roc

HUH? Surely, you cannot be serious that it is fallacy to believe these things?

Yes, Jesus saves us from our sin...but are we coming to him because of the avoidance of hell or because of the promises he has for us?

...."in my father's house are many mansions"....this makes me happy, gives me purpose and fulfills my deepest longings!!! I've seen enough suffering on this side of eternity and have hope for a better place of eternal fellowship and relationship and community!!!

No, Prax...this entire discussion I've had was not based on the original post regarding Comfort....it was from Keith's comment about fallacy....that is where this entire debate stemmed from. You apparently missed the point of everything I've been saying...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

No, Prax...this entire discussion I've had was not based on the original post regarding Comfort....it was from Keith's comment about fallacy....that is where this entire debate stemmed from. You apparently missed the point of everything I've been saying...

So do you agree we need to preach about sin and the consequence of sin to the lost and not instead preach a message to them that God just wants to make their flight a better one?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

No, Prax...this entire discussion I've had was not based on the original post regarding Comfort....it was from Keith's comment about fallacy....that is where this entire debate stemmed from. You apparently missed the point of everything I've been saying...

You quote K4H

Also it exposes the fallacy of the doctrine that come to Jesus because he will make you happy,give you purpose, fullfill your deepest longings, etc., instead he will save you from your sins.

Uh....yes isn't this what I HAVE been talking about? What we preach to the LOST? The reason we give to them to COME to Jesus in the first place?

This is EXACTLY what I have been talking about. We are discussing HOW to reach the lost...HOW to convert them...not post conversion. True and False conversion. That seems to be exactly what Keith is speaking about here.

What do we preach to uncoverted to LEAD them to Jesus...not what do we preach to the converted who have already been LED to Jesus...that seems to be what this discussion was about and what Keith was saying there

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You quote K4H

Also it exposes the fallacy of the doctrine that come to Jesus because he will make you happy,give you purpose, fullfill your deepest longings, etc., instead he will save you from your sins.

Uh....yes isn't this what I HAVE been talking about? What we preach to the LOST? The reason we give to them to COME to Jesus in the first place?

This is EXACTLY what I have been talking about. We are discussing HOW to reach the lost...HOW to convert them...not post conversion. True and False conversion. That seems to be exactly what Keith is speaking about here.

What do we preach to uncoverted to LEAD them to Jesus...not what do we preach to the converted who have already been LED to Jesus...that seems to be what this discussion was about and what Keith was saying there

If that is what you have been talking about then we are both discussing the same issue and are taking opposite views on the issue...therefore, nobody has lost the point of the discussion!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jroc

...."in my father's house are many mansions"....this makes me happy, gives me purpose and fulfills my deepest longings!!! I've seen enough suffering on this side of eternity and have hope for a better place of eternal fellowship and relationship and community!!!

Yes this makes YOU happy....you are converted. These are edifying words to the converted. But what Keith is speaking of are the words we speak to the unconverted in order to LEAD them to Christ.

Yes, we can tell them there is eternity to expect, but what the thread is about isn't eternal rewards, but NOW rewards. The fallacy is that we reach them by simply telling them they will be happy, that life will be much better. Just like the flight. It's not the telling them about their possible destination that is the fallacy, it's the telling them that if they turn to Christ He will make your flight just great.

And as any believer knows, this walk since being converted has it's ups and downs.

And when they experience those downs, they feel cheated just like the guy on the flight who is told if he wears this parachute it will make his flight better...when the reality was that the ONLY reason for the parachute was that in the event of trouble he will be secure...the parachute actually was uncomfortable but for the man that is not disappointed by the stories that it will make your flight better, but instead is wearing it because he knows it can save him, he does not mind wearing it.

True and false conversion. True conversion is knowing that Christ died for the ungodly...sinners like you and I and otherwise we were all lost. The fallacy here is not telling them about eternal life...the eternal perks....the fallacy is about NOT telling them WHY they need Jesus...WHY they need to repent and instead focus on TEMPORAL perks...not eternal perks....which is a fallacy

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If that is what you have been talking about then we are both discussing the same issue and are taking opposite views on the issue...therefore, nobody has lost the point of the discussion!

So you tell the sinner "God just wants to love you and make you happy" and avoid telling them "we are all sinners and judgement awaits sinners, but there is good news. Jesus died so we don't have to go to Hell. We need to put our faith in him and repent of our sins"???

See, it's not the temporal perks that keep me....it's the eternal perks that keep me, but it was the fact that I realized I was a sinner and that should I die I would find my faith would be to stand before God in judgement and NOT have the blood of Jesus on my side. The Eternal perks are that I won't have to be judged. I won't have to go to hell. I have eternal life with Jesus. Yes I have that mansion, but I realized this from the beginning....I have sinned and was worthy of death, but Jesus saved me from a fate worse than death and for that I am forever grateful.

His love would not have meant much for me back then had I not known all that. And for many people whose lives are pretty good, they have money, family and even happiness...telling them simply "God just wants to love you and put a smile on you face" is meaningless.

Not everyone that needs God or comes to God does so because they were in dire straits and unhappy