Breaking news

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Even during the Old covenant Mercy and Grace were provided Individually as well as nationally or corporately.

We do not differ though we call this the time or dispensation of grace. Grace was demonstrated throughout history.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

God Gave the inhabitants of Cana a period of Grace. He will not bring judgment unless it is justly deserved. God grants a time period but wickedness will ultimately be judged. For we are saved by grace through Faith If grace were not given life would not continue. Grace is the giving of good things by a loving God. Mercy is a withholding of just judgment and the punishment that is deserving. He then used Israel to deliver Justice.

Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.


We are still awaiting the cup of his wrath to be filled with the wickedness of this world. At that time God gave the Amorites 4 generations or 400 years till judgment would come. Plenty of time for repentance. His people that recieved the Law, during that time he would judge more quickly and severely.

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


PS.: Excuse me I been a little sick for the past few days and am getting restless. So I keep on reading and then posting what is on my mind.

God Bless
Pastor DT Salaz

Where does this fit in with the subject at hand??

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

By the way I believe God showed Abraham two examples of his descendants. His earthly and his spiritual. First he showed him the earthly

Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever.
Gen 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Gen 13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.


His promise that in thee all families of the earth will be blessed. By the Messiah who was to come.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

We will now see the children of faith. His heavenly or spiritual children. He believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. FAITH God is really his exceeding and great reward. Not really his riches nor his descendants, I AM. God is ultimately his reward

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

All people are saved by faith in God, Old or New Testament(Covenant) Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness just like us. How is belief shown through faith. They are different. You can't have faith until you get belief. Belief is the knowledge, faith is the action that follows. Somebody can get all the information but never move to action and will never be saved. Knowledge will not save you. Studying will get you knowledge. Knowledge will provide understanding. Wisdom is knowing what to do with that knowledge. Faith will move a person to action. Works always are the result of Faith. By FAITH the patriarchs obeyed God and were saved by them. Works demonstrated their Faith. Therefore we are children of Abraham through FAITH.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.


Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


Be Blessed

Pastor DT Salaz

Again, you are proving that it is not about natural birth but about re-birth, and that without being Born Again, no man or woman is a part of God's Chosen. Elder, your scriptures are just agreeing with what we are saying.

[Pastor DTSalaz]

I am not here to prove either theory that Elder Epley or TK Burk may have been debating. I do believe that the National Israelite does have a special place in Election and having received the covenant and oracles of God. This is the everlasting covenant that God made.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The Token of that covenant was circumcision. To be a part of God Covenant this had to be done. Did this in and of itself save the Hebrew. NO! It was just a marriage vow. Now the vow had to be demonstrated by love. Just as Baptism doesn't save in and of itself. It must be done in faith. He that believeth and is baptized. Is that it? That is just the beginning of a lifelong relationship of fidelity.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Deu 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

This does not make the Israelite saved just by birthright. It is by obedience that faith is demonstrated. The Progressive revelation of God gave them the symbol and anti type of the promise that would satisfy the righteous requirement of God. The fulfillment is in Christ (the annointed one or messiah) we now know his revealed name. Jesus

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (Faith)
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth (unbelief), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


Paul laid out his argument for this throughout Romans and Hebrews

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This does not nullify the everlasting covenant that God made with Abraham. It disqualifies the one who does not believe God and therefore will not act in faith.

Pastor DT Salaz

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

I am not here to prove either theory that Elder Epley or TK Burk may have been debating. I do believe that the National Israelite does have a special place in Election and having received the covenant and oracles of God. This is the everlasting covenant that God made.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The Token of that covenant was circumcision. To be a part of God Covenant this had to be done. Did this in and of itself save the Hebrew. NO! It was just a marriage vow. Now the vow had to be demonstrated by love. Just as Baptism doesn't save in and of itself. It must be done in faith. He that believeth and is baptized. Is that it? That is just the beginning of a lifelong relationship of fidelity.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Deu 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

This does not make the Israelite saved just by birthright. It is by obedience that faith is demonstrated. The Progressive revelation of God gave them the symbol and anti type of the promise that would satisfy the righteous requirement of God. The fulfillment is in Christ (the annointed one or messiah) we now know his revealed name. Jesus

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (Faith)
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth (unbelief), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


Paul laid out his argument for this throughout Romans and Hebrews

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This does not nullify the everlasting covenant that God made with Abraham. It disqualifies the one who does not believe God and therefore will not act in faith.

Pastor DT Salaz

Very good indeed. My friends read it and weep.

[Pastor DTSalaz]

To qualify this statement is that the chosen of God were the ones born by descent through genealogy from Abraham. Yet this birth did not guarantee salvation. Salvation came by obedience to Gods commandments, statutes, and ordinances. Correct that is the true biblical "Jew" Our children have a priviledge that unconverted people don't have. They by inheritance can receive salvation as it is instilled in them in their upbringing. They ultimately will have to make a decision on their own. Mommas and daddies salvation wont save them if they disobey.

Agreed! Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Not so clearly, passed. Fullfilled Yes! Passed No! One of the defining factors of the old covenant from the garden of Eden was that of a Blood Sacrifice. If they had faith in God they would offer a blood sacrifice yearly for a covering of sin. This was Salvation in Jesus the promised one of Gen 3.15. As long as they did this they were saved by faith. It was not the works that saved them, once again it demonstrated their faith in Gods Word and Faithfulness. The new covenant is doing away with the symbols and finding fulfillment in the reality.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

It is not by works that we are saved, it is solely by grace. We cannot do enough good works to get God to notice how good we are. It is because God is Good that he leads us to repentance. Not because we deserve it.

(2) Since the Bible only gives examples of biblical Jews returning to their physical Promised Land after repenting and returning to God, how can modern Israel be considered the same type of returning since there never was any such repentance or returning to God?

When God came to manifest himself in the flesh where did he go? Nowhere else in the world did he go but to Israel and to Jerusalem. The Essenes were more pious and God fearing than most Jews of their time. Yet not one mention of them in the Word of God. Why? They substituted ritual cleansings for the blood sacrifice. Though many have rejected and forsaken their covenant with God he never will on his part.

Deu 16:2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.

(3) Can you provide the information where today's Jews separated themselves from the world around them as commanded by Ezra 6:41? And since the New Covenant is the only Covenant today, this would involve separation from Jewish traditions and superstitions that are contrary to the commands of Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

There still are orthodox and Ultra orthodox Jews that still are awaiting the messiah. They do like the Jews of the dispersion did. In lieu of the sacrifices they do everything else they can to keep the commandments of the law. They still long to exactly fulfill the law by offering sacrifices as commanded yet are unable.

Our eyes have been opened by the revelation of Jesus Christ and we ought to be thankful for that in that so many others are still waiting for someone to bring the true saving message of Acts 2.38. The scripture in Acts 4.12 goes back to the foundation of the world. It reaches back to Adam & Eve up to the present day and on into the future. It is not dated, even though it was revealed in Gods progressive revelation in time.

contd.:

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Page 2

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

(4) Can you give evidence where any man or woman ever followed the Old Covenant commands necessary to qualify as a biblical Jew since the time of the AD70 destruction of the Jewish Temple?

Where did Paul Go? He went first to the synagogues. They were in place throughout the world and their evidence has come down through the ages. Even the later church fathers who fought against them give evidence of their existence. To this day throughout the world there are synagogues. What more evidence do you want. Look at the list that was provided by Sam in an earlier post. Yes there are apostate Jews yet there are true orthodox Jews. They are waiting for you to bring them the message of salvation like the Apostles did.

(5) If you cannot provide evidence where a man or woman ever lived up these Old Covenant commandments, and if you believe there still exists biblical Jews as described in the Old Covenant, can you give where in the Bible God said obedience to His commands and His Covenant are NOT needed before a man or woman can be considered a "biblical Jew"?[/INDENT]

Mute question. No one ever lived up to the commandments. Not even us. Therefore we are all condemned. There is none righteous, no, not one. The commandment condemns us only Jesus saves us. It is his righteousness not our works. We do them because we are saved. They demonstrate our faith. Likewise they did them looking forward to their savior. In doing them they proved their faith. It is their faith that saves even them not the works!!!! This is the greatness of this revelation their birth did not save them it was their faith.

Pastor DTSalaz, like has been already pointed out, NO ONE is suggesting that there are no Jews today. It is a fact that Jews do exist and that God loves them as much as He loves any other peoples of the world. God is NOT a respecter of persons, and neither should we. What is in question here is whether a man or woman can qualify as a part of God's Chosen People while still living outside His commandments and His covenant. I contend that nowhere does the Bible say that a person—any person—can be a part of God's Chosen people unless they are in His Covenant and are living according to His commandments. This same notion is why you keep hearing men make the statement here that it is not about RACE but about GRACE....

I contend that it is was always salvation by grace. (Might not agree with dispensational theology.) We cannot do or say anything other than what the bible says to do to be saved. Our job is to pray that if they are blinded in part that God would open up their eyes to see the truth. Even when it walked with them they rejected it. Some however when taught the truth gave up the symbol for the reality. That continues to be our job of reaching the whole world with the whole Gospel. Many Jews are like many Christians believing that the label will save them and not the practice of their faith.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Please remember that Jesus looked at a natural born Jew named Nicodemus and told him that except he be born again, he would not see nor enter the kingdom of God (See John 3:1-12). Elder, Jesus told that religious leader of the Jews that his natural birth meant nothing, and that unless he was Born Again into His New Covenant, he would be spiritually lost. If it was true then, it is still true today....

What is being born again? We all are like Nicodemus. After Adam through disobedience brought sin into the world we all died spiritually. We are walking dead men. In a death cell waiting for the executioner. We are not alive just existing. We woke up to consciousness of sin, the flesh, and the spirit of the world. What is being born again????

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

WE now have to be dead to sin and reverse the curse. Wake up spiritually. Faith. How do we do that? By crucifying the flesh. Repentance. Are you dead to sin? Bury that old man. Baptism Rise up again and take a breath of the newness of life. Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Be Blessed
Pastor DT SAlaz

[StMark]

WHO'S ON The LORD'S SIDE
Bro Epley
St Mark
Pastor Salaz

[Hoovie]

Markus, where is the other list and who's side are they on??

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by StMark

WHO'S ON The LORD'S SIDE
Bro Epley
St Mark
Pastor Salaz

There you go it is officially over.

Repent ye preterists the kingdom is at hand.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

There you go it is officially over.

Repent ye preterists the kingdom is at hand.

I will consider. Do you have free Krispy Kreme doughnuts before services?