Michael, I'm not talking hope. I'm 32 years old, so Roe v. Wade is older than me. In the ensuing time we have had numerous Republican candidates at every level of government garner support primarily by being pro-life. Since Roe v. Wade only 10 new justices have been appointed to the SCOTUS...8 of the ten have been appointed by Republican Presidents. I am firmly against abortion, but I am equally appalled by the murder of millions of babies being reduced to a talking point and political rhetoric.
It is very telling to me that noone has been able to answer my question and many people have just avoided it altogether.
I just had a conversation about some of this with someone via PM so I'll just add some of my thought from that convo:
I honestly am afraid that abortion has become too institutionalized in our culture to ever be done away with. What really aggravates me is that there was a window of opportunity when abortion was not widespread and common and I feel like if the "moral majority" had been more demanding and less satisfied by rhetoric, something substantive could have been done. In the 35 years since Roe v Wade, abortion has been a political football while at the same time becoming a part of the American culture. For those same politicians to now offer their pro-life stance as a primary reason that my generation should continue to vote for them is almost offensive to me.__________________
I beieve that it is crazy and counter productive to the democratic process to pledge your vote strongly based on an issue, then "hope" that something is done about it. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a substantive plan that the pro-life politicians are offering to justify our votes.
This goes right back to my disdain of partisan politics. It is due to partisan politics that a President can get into office, not reflect conseravtive ideals (in immigration, fiscal responsibilty, abortion, and other issues)...but still know that he will enjoy the unending support of conservatives everywhere.
Because the issue is large I think the Republicans have it right by doing these things:
1. Conservatives have tried to enhance informed consent laws, including waiting periods, so that a woman doesn't make a hasty decision before getting an abortion.
2. They have fought for parental consent laws for minors in an effort to give the girls' parents an opportunity to make the decision, along with the minor, as to whether an abortion is really in her best interests.
3. They have attempted to appoint conservative judges who believe in a stricter construction of the Constitution.
I believe, with this issue, you have to move slow and smart. You have to begin somewhere. I don't think the Republican party is ignoring the issue.
Michael, I'm not talking hope. I'm 32 years old, so Roe v. Wade is older than me. In the ensuing time we have had numerous Republican candidates at every level of government garner support primarily by being pro-life. Since Roe v. Wade only 10 new justices have been appointed to the SCOTUS...8 of the ten have been appointed by Republican Presidents. I am firmly against abortion, but I am equally appalled by the murder of millions of babies being reduced to a talking point and political rhetoric.
It is very telling to me that noone has been able to answer my question and many people have just avoided it altogether.
I just had a conversation about some of this with someone via PM so I'll just add some of my thought from that convo:
I honestly am afraid that abortion has become too institutionalized in our culture to ever be done away with. What really aggravates me is that there was a window of opportunity when abortion was not widespread and common and I feel like if the "moral majority" had been more demanding and less satisfied by rhetoric, something substantive could have been done. In the 35 years since Roe v Wade, abortion has been a political football while at the same time becoming a part of the American culture. For those same politicians to now offer their pro-life stance as a primary reason that my generation should continue to vote for them is almost offensive to me.__________________
I beieve that it is crazy and counter productive to the democratic process to pledge your vote strongly based on an issue, then "hope" that something is done about it. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a substantive plan that the pro-life politicians are offering to justify our votes.
This goes right back to my disdain of partisan politics. It is due to partisan politics that a President can get into office, not reflect conseravtive ideals (in immigration, fiscal responsibilty, abortion, and other issues)...but still know that he will enjoy the unending support of conservatives everywhere.
Hi Friend,
I am 55 years old. I do not think Politics is the answer for righteousness. I have very little faith in the Republicans to overturn abortion. Thats why I used the word "hope".
I understand the GREAT WRATH that is coming on America because of this massive slaughter of the innocent. Thats why I would even bother to vote at all. Just to cast my vote AGAINST those who want it to continue. Just to show Yeshua the Messiah that I oppose it.
Apart from that and the gay issue I probably would not even vote. Some will scoff at that but its my vote and I suppose I can use it however I chose.
Here is why I find this talk about Sarah Palin so interesting.
The morning they were going to announce Mccains VP pick I woke up from this dream:
I was in a room with several women. The one standing next to me I noticed was wearing a headcovering. When the other woman saw it she had a look on her face like "I guess thats what I should do". Then she put one on.
Looking back to the one beside me I was drawn to something that looked odd. Her hair was kind of "piled up" like a Pentecostal woman might wear her hair. What was unusual was I could see that her headcovering was attached to her hair with small pieces of tape.
Then I saw a man start talking to her using sign language. I then woke up.
I had no idea what this might mean so I prayed on it before getting up.
I thought it was significant that "sign language" was involved.
I got up for breakfast and knew the VP pick was going to soon be announced so I turned the TV on.
They were saying something like "rumors are floating that Mccain has picked Gov. Sarah Palin". As they spoke a picture of her came on the screen.
When I saw her "piled up" hair I knew immediatley this was the fulfillment of the dream. This woman would be the nominee. It went on for about a half hour or so with them talking about this with different ones giving their opinions if it was true.
I felt the Lord had showed me it was. Then they announced it was true.
I had read part of several articles about this woman in the last month but had no idea she would be ahead of someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee and I had never seen a picture of her that would tip me off as to how she wore her hair.
Anyway that makes all this personal to me.
Did the Lord show me that just for my own blessing in intimacy with him as he has done many times before? Or is it to pray for her because he is going to use her in his sovereign plan? I think the lord was giving me a "sign".
I believe things dont just happen. I plan to pray for her and will be hoping good things will come from and for her.
Here is why I find this talk about Sarah Palin so interesting.
The morning they were going to announce Mccains VP pick I woke up from this dream:
I was in a room with several women. The one standing next to me I noticed was wearing a headcovering. When the other woman saw it she had a look on her face like "I guess thats what I should do". Then she put one on.
Looking back to the one beside me I was drawn to something that looked odd. Her hair was kind of "piled up" like a Pentecostal woman might wear her hair. What was unusual was I could see that her headcovering was attached to her hair with small pieces of tape.
Then I saw a man start talking to her using sign language. I then woke up.
I had no idea what this might mean so I prayed on it before getting up.
I thought it was significant that "sign language" was involved.
I got up for breakfast and knew the VP pick was going to soon be announced so I turned the TV on.
They were saying something like "rumors are floating that Mccain has picked Gov. Sarah Palin". As they spoke a picture of her came on the screen.
When I saw her "piled up" hair I knew immediatley this was the fulfillment of the dream. This woman would be the nominee. It went on for about a half hour or so with them talking about this with different ones giving their opinions if it was true.
I felt the Lord had showed me it was. Then they announced it was true.
I had read part of several articles about this woman in the last month but had no idea she would be ahead of someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee and I had never seen a picture of her that would tip me off as to how she wore her hair.
Anyway that makes all this personal to me.
Did the Lord show me that just for my own blessing in intimacy with him as he has done many times before? Or is it to pray for her because he is going to use her in his sovereign plan? I think the lord was giving me a "sign".
I believe things dont just happen. I plan to pray for her and will be hoping good things will come from and for her.
I can't answer your question. I had a similar experience before Bush was Governor of Texas. God spoke to be when I was praying and told me to pray for he and his wife because he would be our next President.
I don't know why to this day, except perhaps to just cover them with prayer.
No, I did agree with that you said, but I was still waiting for a direct answer to my original question...exactly what promises and plans have been spelled out by the many "pro-life" politicians who garner so many votes purely on the abortion issue. Or is the stance going to be perpetually rhetorical. I was looking for the specifc parts of the platform that address that issue, so that we won't be having this same conversation after 4 years of McCain and Palin.
At this point I must proclaim, with a heavy heart, "perpetually rhetorical."
tstew, did you see a post in the last day or two that listed the points of progress on this issue that have been achieved during the Bush administration? I knew about some of them, but was surprised by the length of the list. These things are obviously not as newsworthy as Paris Hilton and Britney's mothering skills.
__________________
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"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
Michael, I'm not talking hope. I'm 32 years old, so Roe v. Wade is older than me.
I honestly am afraid that abortion has become too institutionalized in our culture to ever be done away with. What really aggravates me is that there was a window of opportunity when abortion was not widespread and common and I feel like if the "moral majority" had been more demanding and less satisfied by rhetoric, something substantive could have been done. In the 35 years since Roe v Wade, abortion has been a political football while at the same time becoming a part of the American culture. For those same politicians to now offer their pro-life stance as a primary reason that my generation should continue to vote for them is almost offensive to me.__________________
I beieve that it is crazy and counter productive to the democratic process to pledge your vote strongly based on an issue, then "hope" that something is done about it. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a substantive plan that the pro-life politicians are offering to justify our votes.
This goes right back to my disdain of partisan politics. It is due to partisan politics that a President can get into office, not reflect conseravtive ideals (in immigration, fiscal responsibilty, abortion, and other issues)...but still know that he will enjoy the unending support of conservatives everywhere.
Tstew - I see where you are coming from - however, there are two things at work here.....
1) Yes, we have been disappointed by some of the appointees to the SCOTUS. But - we also have had to deal with confirmation hearings that were very difficult to get REAL pro-life judges through.
2) To me abortion is more than just a political football - I agree with you that it will be VERY difficult - if not impossible - to ever overturn Roe vs Wade - HOWEVER, my personal opinion is that anyone who actively supports the murder of innocent babies has some serious flaws in their character. The character flaws will come out in other areas that as a people we will have to deal with. So to me - a candidate's stance on life is kind of the line in the sand for me.
I don't think that I have said this in a way that you will understand - but I hope it will cause you to stop and think for just a minute about what all is involved when a person so blatantly supports something that is so obviously against God.
__________________ For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11
Here is why I find this talk about Sarah Palin so interesting.
The morning they were going to announce Mccains VP pick I woke up from this dream:
I was in a room with several women. The one standing next to me I noticed was wearing a headcovering. When the other woman saw it she had a look on her face like "I guess thats what I should do". Then she put one on.
Looking back to the one beside me I was drawn to something that looked odd. Her hair was kind of "piled up" like a Pentecostal woman might wear her hair. What was unusual was I could see that her headcovering was attached to her hair with small pieces of tape.
Then I saw a man start talking to her using sign language. I then woke up.
I had no idea what this might mean so I prayed on it before getting up.
I thought it was significant that "sign language" was involved.
I got up for breakfast and knew the VP pick was going to soon be announced so I turned the TV on.
They were saying something like "rumors are floating that Mccain has picked Gov. Sarah Palin". As they spoke a picture of her came on the screen.
When I saw her "piled up" hair I knew immediatley this was the fulfillment of the dream. This woman would be the nominee. It went on for about a half hour or so with them talking about this with different ones giving their opinions if it was true.
I felt the Lord had showed me it was. Then they announced it was true.
I had read part of several articles about this woman in the last month but had no idea she would be ahead of someone like Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee and I had never seen a picture of her that would tip me off as to how she wore her hair.
Anyway that makes all this personal to me.
Did the Lord show me that just for my own blessing in intimacy with him as he has done many times before? Or is it to pray for her because he is going to use her in his sovereign plan? I think the lord was giving me a "sign".
I believe things dont just happen. I plan to pray for her and will be hoping good things will come from and for her.
I am curious - do you have any idea of the significance of the headcovering ("piled up hair") being attached with small pieces of tape?
__________________ For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11
I am curious - do you have any idea of the significance of the headcovering ("piled up hair") being attached with small pieces of tape?
No but I was particularly drawn to it as if the Spirit was intensifying that piece of info. Also just to clarify the headcovering was a veil. It was attached to the piled up hair.
Tstew - I see where you are coming from - however, there are two things at work here.....
1) Yes, we have been disappointed by some of the appointees to the SCOTUS. But - we also have had to deal with confirmation hearings that were very difficult to get REAL pro-life judges through.
2) To me abortion is more than just a political football - I agree with you that it will be VERY difficult - if not impossible - to ever overturn Roe vs Wade - HOWEVER, my personal opinion is that anyone who actively supports the murder of innocent babies has some serious flaws in their character. The character flaws will come out in other areas that as a people we will have to deal with. So to me - a candidate's stance on life is kind of the line in the sand for me.
I don't think that I have said this in a way that you will understand - but I hope it will cause you to stop and think for just a minute about what all is involved when a person so blatantly supports something that is so obviously against God.
Sweet Pea, I do understand what you are saying, and I guess that still goes back to the heart of my question and frustration. Are we to the point now where we are accepting the murder of millions of babies and are satisfied to give our vote to people in power (the ones who could do something) based on their verbal disagreement with it? If so, it is just further evidence of how the moral majority was silenced and pacified by rhetoric for 35 years. Personally, I'm not sure which is worse...someone who believes that abortion is murder and does not do everything in their power to stop it, or someone who genuinely does not believe that abortion is murder in the scientific, religious, and moral sense and therefore doesn't do anything about it.
Either abortion is murder or it isn't. In my opinion if abortion is murder, the conservatives in our country should have approached it with the same passion and demand for action on every level as if a million ten-year-olds were being executed every year. I reject the notion that something could not have been done in 35 years if the majority of Americans had flexed their muscles and demanded it. Instead the GOP found a happy place where they could champion it but not have to do much about it.
It is crazy then for them to approach my generation of pro-life Americans with the same tired talking point. Unless I know exactly what you are pledging to do about abortion, don't try to use it as a religious lever to guarantee my vote. I am looking for the specific plan of action that I can hold you to and judge you by after your term.
__________________
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Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
It is crazy then for them to approach my generation of pro-life Americans with the same tired talking point. Unless I know exactly what you are pledging to do about abortion, don't try to use it as a religious lever to guarantee my vote.
Does that mean you could vote for a pro choice candidate?
No, I did agree with that you said, but I was still waiting for a direct answer to my original question...exactly what promises and plans have been spelled out by the many "pro-life" politicians who garner so many votes purely on the abortion issue. Or is the stance going to be perpetually rhetorical. I was looking for the specifc parts of the platform that address that issue, so that we won't be having this same conversation after 4 years of McCain and Palin.
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