Was Matt.28:19 Tampered With ?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually it means a certain translation or a certain greek text has an error. It does not mean God's word is fallible

So what is "God's Word?" Who's holding it in their hand? Does one exist? If each translation is flawed, where is the divinely inspired infallible Word of God? I went to the Bible Book Store today and they were fresh out of original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

This is from page 19 of the 1952 Manual of the United Pentecostal Church. the subject is Repentance and Conversion (I don't know if the current manual reads this way or not)

Repentance and Conversion

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5;1). John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the Apostles emphasized it to both Jews and Gentiles. (Acts 2:38; 11:18; 17:30)

The word “repentance” comes from several Greek word which mean, change of views and purpose, change of heart, change of mind, change of life, to transform, etc.

Jesus said, “...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3).

Luke 24:47 says, “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

I have a 1994 Manual handy - it reads identically. - Page 21 in the "Articles of Faith" section.

Also, the next section on Water Baptism does not saying anything about "Remission of Sins."

"Remission of sins" is seen only under "Repentance."

Does anyone have a manual more recent than 1994?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by notofworks

So what is "God's Word?" Who's holding it in their hand? Does one exist? If each translation is flawed, where is the divinely inspired infallible Word of God? I went to the Bible Book Store today and they were fresh out of original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

Pity. I'd like one.

In the mean time however, if we look at the "Word of God" as being a message of hope that has been handed down through the centuries and NOT as a legal document whose finest hairs must be split so that we may condemn and ........ one another, I think we're okay.

Hey! What just happened? Who did the "........" thing? All I said was "........."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about an "Acts 2:38" adherent?

That's what we're looking for. If "Acts 2:38" is "the only way to be saved" then we should find lots of people throughout history who preached that...

... no one has ever been able to find a single person.

Lot's of people "spoke in tongues" or something like it. Lots of people had "religious experiences" of shaking, joy, "illumination," you name it.

A relative handful seemed to pick up on Jesus name baptism and applied it while immersing, pouring and even sprinkling.

A few "Unitarian" style "oneness" types pop up from time to time.

But no one - not a single person - ever preached "Acts 2:38" as the standard of salvation from the time of the apostles until the time of the Apostolic Faith Movement in the early 20th century.
Otherwise, there would be a long list gathering here right now.

Pel,

Your post made me ask myself a question.

Did the Apostles EVER preach Acts 2:38 as the standard of salvation?


I am leaning towards, "No."

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have a 1994 Manual handy - it reads identically. - Page 21 in the "Articles of Faith" section.

Also, the next section on Water Baptism does not saying anything about "Remission of Sins."

"Remission of sins" is seen only under "Repentance."

Does anyone have a manual more recent than 1994?

I've got one!! 1992. I'll FedEx it to you. It's not doing me much good!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Pity. I'd like one.

In the mean time however, if we look at the "Word of God" as being a message of hope that has been handed down through the centuries and NOT as a legal document whose finest hairs must be split so that we may condemn and ........ one another, I think we're okay.

Hey! What just happened? Who did the "........" thing? All I said was "........."

That's funny.

But this raises an interesting...to me anyway...question. I've always assumed that when someone says, "The bible is the infalllible Word of God, there are no errors, jot & tittle, blah, blah, blah", they meant that the couple thousand pages wrapped in leather (or fake leather if it was cheap) we hold in our hand was IT, and I mean IT!

So is it possible to hold the bible, the infallible Word of God, in one's hand and yet, that infallible Word of God/bible have errors? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

It seems like I'm hearing that there's a theoretical infallible Word of God but we can't actually have it, thus the smart remark I made about the bible book store being fresh out of original manuscripts (which wouldn't do me any good because I flunked Greek in college...which wouldn't have done me any good anyway if I had gotten an A because the class was a joke).

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Pel,

Your post made me ask myself a question.

Did the Apostles EVER preach Acts 2:38 as the standard of salvation?


I am leaning towards, "No."

The apostles definitely taught Acts 2:38! LOL!!

I'd suggest you review early church history a little closer first. Faith and repentance was taught, as was water baptism in order to have your sins remitted. I don't know what they taught about the infilling of the Spirit but there was some visible sign noted in the book of Acts (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19) and it was assumed that folks knew when they had received the Spirit of God. Acts 19.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The apostles definitely taught Acts 2:38! LOL!!

I'd suggest you review early church history a little closer first. Faith and repentance was taught, as was water baptism in order to have your sins remitted. I don't know what they taught about the infilling of the Spirit but there was some visible sign noted in the book of Acts (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19) and it was assumed that folks knew when they had received the Spirit of God. Acts 19.

Actually, your reading into the Text. If it was the primary, core theology, there would be more predominant traces of this theology in church history, which there is not.

BTW, of course folks knew when they received the Spirit baptism. They still know today. And preaching water baptism and repentance does not a 3-stepper make. I think all on this forum preach repentance and water baptism

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Actually, your reading into the Text. If it was the primary, core theology, there would be more predominant traces of this theology in church history, which there is not.

BTW, of course folks knew when they received the Spirit baptism. They still know today. And preaching water baptism and repentance does not a 3-stepper make. I think all on this forum preach repentance and water baptism

Actually, I don't believe in water baptism. I'm with the Quakers on this one.













just kidding

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The apostles definitely taught Acts 2:38! LOL!!

I'd suggest you review early church history a little closer first. Faith and repentance was taught, as was water baptism in order to have your sins remitted. I don't know what they taught about the infilling of the Spirit but there was some visible sign noted in the book of Acts (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19) and it was assumed that folks knew when they had received the Spirit of God. Acts 19.

Isn't it amazing, the very words of Jesus Christ in Luke 24:

24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (46)And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (48) And ye are witnesses of these things.(49)And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."

Who tarried in Jerusalem?

Acts 2:13 "And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. (14) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven..."

Peter and ALL the apostle were present, including the mother of Jesus.

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

No, they didn't preach Acts 2:38. Yes, they did! LOL!