CA. Western Dist.aftermath of WPF- hardly a dent - Page 13

dizzyde · #**121** 06-16-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

What's also missing is how many ministers have been dropped because of not paying dues ...

Dan, if they included all those dropped for non-payment, that would completely invalidate their results. The only way that those dropped for non-payment could be included would be more than 6 months or more after the fact.

Do you have any idea how many preachers are dropped on a continual basis for non-payment? The numbers would stagger you. The majority of them wind up reinstated via their presbyter or meeting with the district board.

SDG · #**122** 06-16-2008, 05:00 PM

If weathering the storm is the objective than fine.

Yet this type of stat reporting has been going on for years Deanna.

PP is fed up ... I believe w/ an established pattern throughout the org of mis-representing deeper issues ...

In over a decade the org may have a net gain of 800 plus ministers ...

Now when I was in the org .... for almost 30 years we were always told about explosive growth and yet one never got the full picture.

This is symptomatic of a bigger problem that is decades old.

Nahum · #**123** 06-16-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyde

The problem is Dan, that the WD seems to weathering a potentially bad storm rather well. Shouldn't there be a sense of relief over that? PP seems horrified.

You do not need to tell me, of all people what a "hotbed" this district has been. It almost killed my dad. However, a lot of the controversy came out of situations that dealt with some of those who have left. Once again, I don't hate them, I don't wish them harm, but I am not sad. I wish them well on their journey, and hope that they further the kingdom.

Wow, I don't know what your deal is, but you have developed a very strong opinion very quickly. Horrified?

I am happy that your District will have peace.

I am sad that there is broken fellowship.

Please stop assigning statements, emotions, and agendas to my username.

BarbieGirl · #**124** 06-16-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Can you demonstrate how PP is showing disunity?

When WD minister is the one who posted the churches who are leaving the organization?

I agree, it wasn't a smart thing for WD to post this stuff.

SDG · #**125** 06-16-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Flat lining can be a positive thing sometimes. Especially when there is a sector that split off! In this case flat lining is considered a major victory and should be rejoiced over!

Disunity in the district was a cancer that was destroying the district from the inside out. The chance at finally having unity should be celebrated!

BTW, I hope the group that left much unity and success also!

I hope for growth too ... but comparing incomplete stats which do not include the losses of the newly formed SoCal give a warped picture of the reality ...

we're only six months into 2008 ... the effects of this cannot be measured especially since the org never reports how many ministers are dropped because non-payment ....

dizzyde · #**126** 06-16-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Sister, I have no "venom" in my heart over it. I have not analyzed the stats. May I ask what your interest in this thread is? What is your agenda?

I think it "sad" that some rejoice over broken fellowship, that's all.

Well for one, I actually live in the district in question. So, unlike most of the people responding on this thread, it does actually affect me.

Second, could you show me where I ever "rejoiced"?

BarbieGirl · #**127** 06-16-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You are promoting uniformity .... not unity ....

Uniformity does not allow divergent view ... unity allows for discourse.

Any successful organization ... in the public and private sectors allows it's members to contribute.

Are you suggesting that one should accept mediocrity and failure? Does holding the fort and keeping appearances mean more than reform and improvements?

Here we go again......Dan knows EVERYTHING.

stmatthew · #**128** 06-16-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minister_WD

**MORE STATS **

Section 1 didn't lose any churches

Section 2 lost Bakersfield-Frost, Burton, Corcoran-Hale, Lindsay-Hyler, Porterville-Kendrick

Section 3 lost Chowchilla-Morgan, Coalinga-Sailer, Fresno-Morton, Kingsburg-Weidner, Woodlake-Teel

Section 4 lost Atwater-Hyler

Section 5 lost none

Section 6 lost Dublin-Terrazas

Section 7 lost Elk Grove-Wilson/Young, Lodi-Hernandez, Minden-Whorley, Rancho Cordova-Phelps

Section 8 lost Chico-Morton

Section 9 lost none

This means WD lost 17 churches in this recent HUGE split. Only 3 of these churches have more than 200 members.

Some of the new churches are SanFran-Gilliam, Vacaville-Whisneat, Jackson-Withers, Woodland-Castro

Is this a list of ALL the churches and ministers that left. What is the parameters used in this? What dates are these numbers from, and when are they to?

The reason I ask is that it seems that there are a few names missing on the list.

SDG · #**129** 06-16-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Is this a list of ALL the churches and ministers that left. What is the parameters used in this? What dates are these numbers from, and when are they to?

The reason I ask is that it seems that there are a few names missing on the list.

This does not show the losses in SoCal.

bkstokes · #**130** 06-16-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I hope for growth too ... but comparing incomplete stats which do not include the losses of the newly formed SoCal give a warped picture of the reality ...

we're only six months into 2008 ... the effects of this cannot be measured especially since the org never reports how many ministers are dropped because non-payment ....

I agree

The secrecy can produce a lack of trust.