A letter from Bro. Haney

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

Well, I consider that judging. You are talking about millions of people you have never met, never had a conversation with.

So agreeing with the Word that people who have not obeyed the gospel is not saved is judging?????????

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by tv1a

It seems like you have more of a beef with me than I do with your legalistic rantings. Find the thread I started which states my core beliefs. Not one conservative nor legalist. Those are my core beliefs and they are based right from the Good Book.

What you consider subjective many call principle. If I were so subjective, would I have stepped up to the plate when William Price was thrown to the wolves a few months back? He and I have a cyber-violent history. But when the schizo from connecticut and paraniod jack rabbit from florida threw him under the bus, who was there leading the charge saying it wasn't right. If I recall you were mute on the topic. If I were subjective, I would been silent when Steve Epley was criticized by the Florida Freakazoid for associating with a more liberal brother.

How can you say I'm a subjective person when I show scriptural evidence why a trinitarian without a oneness revelation can be saved and support the rights of the snake handlers to strut their stuff without self righteous ridicule from the sidelines.

Would a subjective 3-stepper admit the attempted revisionsit history of the upci? Would a subjective person praise the current upci superintendent for his vision?

Where Oh great wise one is the "subjective' posting? I suggest you stop trying to top Dan's post count by silly little potshots at me. If you want to verbally bring it on, let roll. Let's discover who is subjective and who isn't. Start off with reading the thread about what I believe and list which principles you disagree. Unlike Thad and NYLP, I am not so entrenched in the system that I don't have to back off when there is a little heat.

I don't know what I've done to you, but I haven't gotten anyone this riled since William Price and I were cyber duking it out. Maybe God called you to fill his shoes.

For the record, I don't like nor dislike you. I read your testimony a few years ago on the web. It was one of the most inspiriational testimonials I've read.

I don't know why you want to tie me to your lynching tree, but I wouldn't mind getting to the bottom of it. Who knows, you may discover you are more like me than you care to think. lol

who is this addressed to?

The time to be happy is now!
The place to be happy is here!
The way to be happy is to make others happy!

[tv1a]

Neckstadt is correct. If it weren't for the explosive outgrowth in the mission field, a la' Ethiopia, El Salvador, Mexico and Phillipines the upci growth wouldn't make it on the radar.

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

comparing the growth of the UPCI to the growth of the AOG is like comparing apples to oranges. We are not the same. We don't belive the same thing. We don't preach the same doctrine. To top it off, I will say publicly, there are good people in the AOG, but they are NOT my brother and sisters in Christ. They have not obeyed the plan of salvation.

(I may be attacked for saying that but if I am, the attacker is NOT apostolic, but rather apostate)

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Neckstadt is correct. If it weren't for the explosive outgrowth in the mission field, a la' Ethiopia, El Salvador, Mexico and Phillipines the upci growth wouldn't make it on the radar.

Who's radar counts, God's or the World's?

I am not saying the the church must be small, but just because we are not the size of the crystal cathedrial don't mean they are more successful, holy, saved or Godly than we are. It boils down to who is preaching truth and who isn't.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

comparing the growth of the UPCI to the growth of the AOG is like comparing apples to oranges. We are not the same. We don't belive the same thing. We don't preach the same doctrine. To top it off, I will say publicly, there are good people in the AOG, but they are NOT my brother and sisters in Christ. They have not obeyed the plan of salvation.

(I may be attacked for saying that but if I am, the attacker is NOT apostolic, but rather apostate)

My dear friend,

It appears that you have everyone classified, categorized, packaged, labeled and shelved.

How were you able to accomplish so much in just one short lifetime?

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

My dear friend,

It appears that you have everyone classified, categorized, packaged, labeled and shelved.

How were you able to accomplish so much in just one short lifetime?

Not everyone and not even all of the AOG people because I hear that some are baptized in Jesus name.

My problem is mainly with the people who are compromising the doctrine and not willing to stand up for the Word of God. It is still Acts 2:38 and holiness. If someone has not obeyed the gospel they are not saved.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Raven

I'm really in a twilight zone of mixed feelings about all of this. The principals in all of this, KH and NW, are old and very valued friends of mine. I can only imagine the situation they face at family get togethers! So with all the differing opinions I pray that through it all that we will be guided by the supreme law of all, ... the Law of Love!
Raven

Dear Bro. Raven,

There are times when we must commit those difficult things we cannot

handle, into the Hands of THE WONDERFUL COUNSELLOR!! THE MIGHTY

GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER and THE PRINCE OF PEACE!! What a team

of AUTHORITY we have available to us! All in ONE GOD, who is above all,

through all and in you all.

I can assure you, these things manifest not only what we ARE, but where

we are (maturely) spiritually!! IF LOVE is not involved, it is NOT OF GOD!!

GOD IS LOVE and IF we don't have LOVE toward one another, WE do NOT

have GOD as we should! By this (LOVE) shall ALL men know YOU are MY

disciples IF you have LOVE one to another! Immature children are all about

ME, ME, Me! They are many times selfish, because they are not matured!

If this be the case in those who do not have the Love of God manifested

in and through them, why would anyone want to follow them or be under

submission to them. You wouldn't if you are a mature adult. Paul said to

follow him as he followed Christ. The words and things Christ did are in His

Word. Is it easier to follow men than to open His Word and do what He did!!


When we obtain a lawyer (Counsellor) we MUST be willing to allow Him

to represent us. We need to keep our mouths closed when HE is repre-

senting or speaking for us. If we want to talk or discuss the case, we do

so in private (prayer). Then we release it ALL into HIS HANDS to present

to the Court (Heavenly). Could it be that we are being JUDGED NOW!!Could

this not be a TRIAL taking place so that the hearts of men will be made

known or manifest whose they are.

Mark 4:22 "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither
was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Vs. 23 "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear".

1 Cor. 4:5, "Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come,
who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make
manifest (made known) the counsels of the heart; and then shall every man
have praise of God".

Bro. Raven, you, as an earthly father know how much you love your children

and grandchildren, your entire family! How much more does our Heavenly

Father all, LOVE ALL HIS CHILDREN!!! That's why He paid the ultimate price,

because of His GREAT LOVE for HIS Creation! If He can create us, then surely

He is to "shape us up" or discipline us as His children. He loves us enough to

do so and HE CAN DO IT!! TRUST Him with it, in Jesus Name!


Blessings,

Falla39

[ContenderForTheFaith]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I read your testimony a few years ago on the web. It was one of the most inspiriational testimonials I've read.

Bro. Phil, I would love to be able to read your testimony in its entirety if it is available to be read. God bless you Bro.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

How long have you been around? It was proclaimed at the 1975 General Conference of the UPCI that the UPCI in 7 years would overtake the AOG in membership.

Since that conference in 1975 the AOG has almost grown to twice their size.

UPCI by very little.

So because you read one scripture that a few will be saved.

We should stand by and let folks go to hell.

No wonder the UPCI can think it is doing a great work year after year...

They have an answer to the reason why God wants them to remain small....

It has been about lack of vision and leadership for the past 40 years plain and simple.

No vision....

I am not the one who compares the UPCI to the AOG, it is the letters and men of the General Board who make claims about the UPCI being the fastest growing pentecostal organization.

That simply has never been the truth...

How long have I been around, you ask! Well, let me count the years. I was born in early 1939, and this is early 2007, so if my addition is correct then I calculate that I am exactly 69 years old. Now that my age is settled, lets discuss the “vision” concerning the growth of the UPCI which was expressed at the 1975 UPCI General Conference (and yes, that what that proclamation truly represented, an expressed “vision”); one which BTW also reflected an honorable goal worthy of the efforts of EVERY Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal to bring about. NO man, or group, is able to predict the future apart from God, and as mentioned in my previous post, the growth of the worldwide Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal movement has not been such as we all have desired.

The fact that the growth/increase of the UPCI has not exceeded that of the AOG (or any of the other so-called “Pentecostal” churches which do not embrace the same doctrinal teachings regarding salvation held by the UPCI), or that it has failed to achieve the “objective” expressed in its expressed “vision” made in 1975, comes as no great surprise to me (and neither should it to you as well). I state this based not only upon the words of Isaiah 54:1, but also upon our Lord’s response to the question: “Are there FEW that be saved?” that is found in Luke 13:24 - “Strive (implying to apply oneself diligently and without compromise whatsoever) to enter in at the strait (rigid, extremely exacting and definitively defined) gate: (why?) for many (implying a MAJORITY), I say unto you, shall seek (attempt, or exert some efforts) to enter in, and shall NOT be able.”

I believe that I can speak for every member of the UPCI when I say that it continues to be its “vision” for growth is such that it exceeds that of the AOG, or any other “professing” Pentecostal organization, all the while recognizing that it will never be so. Should I allow this acknowledgment to “dampen” my desire to lead as many of my fellow man as possible to an understanding of the Truth concerning the things required of them to be saved? Of course not!

For the 1st 48 years of my life I was a devoted proponent of the teachings of the Church of Christ, and only came to an understanding of the Truth of the saving message of Acts 2:38 in the summer of 1987. So you see, my brother, the UPCI has grown since 1975, and at least attained its stated “vision” of growth by one, namely me! And for that I am most appreciative.

Regarding your final comment concerning the UPCI’s claim of growth which is the “fastest” of all other Pentecostal organizations, yes, I do wholeheartedly agree with it. Why? Because, as you apparently fail to recognize, or acknowledge if you do, that statement was made in reference to its growth when compared to all of the other Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal organizations which exist in the world today, and was not (IMHO) intended to include those groups comprising the “professing” Pentecostal community.

And it is also with a deep, profound sense of righteous indignation that I feel compelled to refute your assertion/suggestion that God “wants” the UPCI to remain small. I challenge you, or anyone else, to provide indisputable evidence which proves the veracity of such an assessment of the expressed, desired goal of the UPCI with regards to the issue of its growth. Indeed, NONE can be found!

I am NOT seeking to disparage or condemn you in any manner because of the things you have stated, and it is my sincere hope that you will not accept anything that I have written as such, rather I only tender this response in an effort to clarify how I have always understood the expressed “vision” statement of the UPCI in 1975, of which you have expressed your views about.