Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

CC that is called judgemental and generalizing. I'm surprised with that kind of attitude you are allowed to be a moderator. Perhaps it speaks to the quality of this forum, period.

How is it "judgementalism" to assert my opinion that due to the culture of old time Pentecost out of a church of 800 people 100-150 would follow a longtime pastor who is contesting morality accusations to a new church?

As others have noted being an admin has nothing to do with my personal opinon or posting. I am required to post within the rules of AFF and the last time I checked opinions were allowed.

My opinion is based on 50+ years of being in and the around old time Oneness Pentecost. It is a very Pastor oriented religious culture. People who have revered a long time pastor can sometimes be in denial. Not a majority of them but certainly to think that 10% or 20% would be is reasonable.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Barb

That's the crux of the matter...the attitude of the erring saint.

Arrogance, as in, "I am above reproach...who are you to try to handle ME?!"

Denial, as in, "Who, ME? I'm not the man!"

Greedy, as in, "I am entitled to this and that...you owe me for my years of service..."

Threats, as in, "Meet my demands or my lawyer will be contacting you..."

This and more speaks of a man with a big-head spirit. This idea that "it's all about meeeeee" is what gets people into trouble in the first place.

The flip-side...

True repentance bringing remorse, as in, "I am the man...I admit it! My heart is heavy with the anguish my sin has caused so many!"

The penitent showing fruit of repentance...for example, if they stole/misappropriated church funds, they will seek to restore it.

Gladly receiving mentoring and direction by the elders, understanding that the restoration of their soul is the most important part of this process...

I tell you, the older I get the more I am convinced that everything we gain or lose in the realm of the Spirit is hinged, not on God, who is willing that all come to repentance, but in our attitude.

Sadly, the current church model , by its very nature, is a great place for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life to grow and thrive, particularly in leadership.

[Sister Alvear]

money, women and power....almost always the cause of a pastor's downfall...

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

money, women and power....almost always the cause of a pastor's downfall...

Sad but true.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by CC1

How is it "judgementalism" to assert my opinion that due to the culture of old time Pentecost out of a church of 800 people 100-150 would follow a longtime pastor who is contesting morality accusations to a new church?

As others have noted being an admin has nothing to do with my personal opinon or posting. I am required to post within the rules of AFF and the last time I checked opinions were allowed.

My opinion is based on 50+ years of being in and the around old time Oneness Pentecost. It is a very Pastor oriented religious culture. People who have revered a long time pastor can sometimes be in denial. Not a majority of them but certainly to think that 10% or 20% would be is reasonable.

Exactly. Just look at that pathetic 300 or so out of 6000 that still faithfully attend Swaggart's church in Baton Rouge, La.

Mindless robots.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by CC1

Peacemaker,

I have no doubt that this is a somewhat multicultural church with many educated and well employed saints. With that said I am still willing to bet the farm that out of around 800 people 100-150 would follow their long time pastor to a new work in the same town.

While I myself have not been UPC for a long time I still have many relatives and friends who are including some in full time ministry. I still visit a number of UPC churches regularly and listen a lot to what my friends and relatives still in it say.

The biggest change I see since I left is that many of the larger churches have adopted a two tier standing of saints with those not adhering to the dress code being welcome but not allowed to participate beyond worship ( for example no teaching, singing in the choir, etc allowed for those heathen women with cut hair, makeup, jewelry, etc)

CC1 you aren't off like PM says you are. This is the predominant trend in the UPC among the premier churches and elite ministries.

Often these churches are told by pastor, ministers on staff, visiting ministers that they are "special" church, among the best of the best, and that they really are the only place in town where the presence and favor of God can be found like it is found there. An elitist mentality becomes a part of the culture of that church.

Prophecies that the jewel of the city church will one day experience a great outpouring, revival, move of God that will bring in the hordes of sinners and further validate their superior standing with God and validate their deeper spirituality are common, furthering the attitude that at any moment an Azusa Street type revival is about to happen. The slightest evidence of supernatural activity: a bonafide miracle, a significant number of people speaking receiving the HG, outbreaks like we saw on YouTube of folks shouting and getting crazy at Cracker Barrel stirs the emotions that it's about to happen.

The congregation begins to believe this brainwashing that they are THE church, the best place to find God and have the deep spiritual experience and revelations they receive, unlike any other in town. They become condescending to other churches in and out of their denomination and they proselytize often.

Then when something like this goes down, there is a crisis within the members of the church. Some realize it was a big farce and that the arrogance and self righteousness was wrong, they are humbled and learn from the experience. Others unfortunately are too intoxicated with themselves and although their hero and the icon of their superiority has fallen, they cannot give up on the idea that they are that special place where God visits in a unique and exclusive way.

Ergo, many will remain blind to what really caused the problem in the first place and keep hanging on to the dream. They even believe the fall of their pastor will be the very thing that will usher in that great move of God they were promised so many times.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by H Gang

CC1 you aren't off like PM says you are. This is the predominant trend in the UPC among the premier churches and elite ministries.

Often these churches are told by pastor, ministers on staff, visiting ministers that they are "special" church, among the best of the best, and that they really are the only place in town where the presence and favor of God can be found like it is found there. An elitist mentality becomes a part of the culture of that church.

Prophecies that the jewel of the city church will one day experience a great outpouring, revival, move of God that will bring in the hordes of sinners and further validate their superior standing with God and validate their deeper spirituality are common, furthering the attitude that at any moment an Azusa Street type revival is about to happen. The slightest evidence of supernatural activity: a bonafide miracle, a significant number of people speaking receiving the HG, outbreaks like we saw on YouTube of folks shouting and getting crazy at Cracker Barrel stirs the emotions that it's about to happen.

The congregation begins to believe this brainwashing that they are THE church, the best place to find God and have the deep spiritual experience and revelations they receive, unlike any other in town. They become condescending to other churches in and out of their denomination and they proselytize often.

Then when something like this goes down, there is a crisis within the members of the church. Some realize it was a big farce and that the arrogance and self righteousness was wrong, they are humbled and learn from the experience. Others unfortunately are too intoxicated with themselves and although their hero and the icon of their superiority has fallen, they cannot give up on the idea that they are that special place where God visits in a unique and exclusive way.

Ergo, many will remain blind to what really caused the problem in the first place and keep hanging on to the dream. They even believe the fall of their pastor will be the very thing that will usher in that great move of God they were promised so many times.

And it is a lonely feeling indeed when you are one of the few who sees through this sham and senses the grief of the Holy Ghost over the matter. It is not Biblical to "believe God for revival" to begin with, or to expect mobs of sinners to just show up. We are commanded to GO and preach the gospel. We are called, as Paul said, to "persuade men" and lovingly call them to repentance. I'll call it a "revival" when I see significant numbers of Christians obeying this command without waiting to be told what to do by their pastors. Sadly, many pastors would try to quench such a revival because it would make them look bad for not obeying the command themselves.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Lacey

To be a Pastor has got to be one of the hardest jobs
there is. Praying for that church.

We have made it harder by morphing it into something God never intended it to be to begin with. How many "pastors" in the modern church model spend much time actually "pastoring"? Rather, they are little more than administators of a local "franchise" of the "chain" church they are affiliated with. This leads to burnout in some, and power hunger in others. Jesus weeps.

[Sister Alvear]

while the crowd shouted...Jesus wept....they knew not.....

[Sister Alvear]

We live with the same danger that rendered the worship of Malachi’s priests vain....