Care to interact with some of the contrasted ideas on the topic?
Not really.
here is what I know.
My great granny was an Apostolic Preacher who preached all over southwest Louisiana and East Texas. She won her mother to the lord and because of those two ladies, I know the gospel today.
My grandmother told me that when she died they found that her knees were giant callous pads from all the time she spent on her knees in prayer.
I know that Vesta Mangun can put me in the floor in conviction over my prayer life.
Sister Alvear has given an entire lifetime to living in a poor nation to bring these people the gospel and has suffered at the hands of bandits and no end or sickness and sorrow to do it.
others ladies have done all these things and more, preaching the gospel to people I will never reach.
I hold these women in the highest regard. Above pretty much all others. Because of the lives they have lived, the sacrifices they have made and the commitment to the Gospel that has defined their existence.
I would not be saved if it were not for a woman preacher. Thank God there are people (men and women) who will still listen to that still small voice and respond with "here am I, send me".
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My great granny was an Apostolic Preacher who preached all over southwest Louisiana and East Texas. She won her mother to the lord and because of those two ladies, I know the gospel today.
My grandmother told me that when she died they found that her knees were giant callous pads from all the time she spent on her knees in prayer.
I know that Vesta Mangun can put me in the floor in conviction over my prayer life.
Sister Alvear has given an entire lifetime to living in a poor nation to bring these people the gospel and has suffered at the hands of bandits and no end or sickness and sorrow to do it.
others ladies have done all these things and more, preaching the gospel to people I will never reach.
I hold these women in the highest regard. Above pretty much all others. Because of the lives they have lived, the sacrifices they have made and the commitment to the Gospel that has defined their existence.
I would not be saved if it were not for a woman preacher. Thank God there are people (men and women) who will still listen to that still small voice and respond with "here am I, send me".
And I respect all that those women did. That can't be overlooked. Really, Pentecostalism as a movement was on the backs of women, minority and poor people... all considered "second class" in the 1900's.
But determining if it's the right model for the church, if it's the most Apostolic in nature requires us to go outside of anecdotes, right?
What I'm saying is that this conversation about complimentarianism vs. egalitarianism is robust, and full of good things to consider.
Here's where I see an anecdotal inconsistency, Ferd. 3-steppers hear from people all the time: "well my Grandma was a good woman. Are you telling me she wasn't saved?" The response is always to let the Word speak for itself. I think we should be consistent here as well. If we disagree, let's stick with the Word -- and that may include investigating the historicity and context for which scripture is written, etc... but it's always more satisfying when we stick to the Word.
And I respect all that those women did. That can't be overlooked. Really, Pentecostalism as a movement was on the backs of women, minority and poor people... all considered "second class" in the 1900's.
But determining if it's the right model for the church, if it's the most Apostolic in nature requires us to go outside of anecdotes, right?
What I'm saying is that this conversation about complimentarianism vs. egalitarianism is robust, and full of good things to consider.
Here's where I see an anecdotal inconsistency, Ferd. 3-steppers hear from people all the time: "well my Grandma was a good woman. Are you telling me she wasn't saved?" The response is always to let the Word speak for itself. I think we should be consistent here as well. If we disagree, let's stick with the Word -- and that may include investigating the historicity and context for which scripture is written, etc... but it's always more satisfying when we stick to the Word.
I find nothing in the word that says women cannot preach. I do find plenty in the word about authority and submission. All of the women I know of who were/are preachers agree with the word on that point. Nona Freeman comes to mind. Se was completely submitted to her husband.
by the way a deacon should be the husband of one wife.... that leads me to my view that I dont think women should be deacons.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I find nothing in the word that says women cannot preach. I do find plenty in the word about authority and submission. All of the women I know of who were/are preachers agree with the word on that point. Nona Freeman comes to mind. Se was completely submitted to her husband.
by the way a deacon should be the husband of one wife.... that leads me to my view that I dont think women should be deacons.
Well, that's what the discussion is all about.
Most complimentarians would ironically be the opposite way around -- women okay as deacons/deaconesses, those who "come beside" but not leading in matters of church polity, eldership (pastoring), etc.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
...by the way a deacon should be the husband of one wife.... that leads me to my view that I dont think women should be deacons.
but the Apostle Paul called Phoebe a deacon (diakanon) and does not seem to have a problem with what he later wrote about a bishop or deacon having only one wife. Maybe the prohibition was against polygamy.
The first person (as far as I know) that Jesus revealed Himself to as the Christ/Messiah was the Samaritan woman in John 4. He said, "You have had (past tense) 5 husbands and the guy you're living with now is not your husband." According to Jesus she did not have (present tense) a husband. And, through her testimony, many Samaritans believed in Him.
but the Apostle Paul called Phoebe a deacon (diakanon) and does not seem to have a problem with what he later wrote about a bishop or deacon having only one wife. Maybe the prohibition was against polygamy.
The first person (as far as I know) that Jesus revealed Himself to as the Christ/Messiah was the Samaritan woman in John 4. He said, "You have had (past tense) 5 husbands and the guy you're living with now is not your husband." According to Jesus she did not have (present tense) a husband. And, through her testimony, many Samaritans believed in Him.
Right, Sam.
And even Complimentarians believe Jesus was destroying the mindset that only the religious elite could be included into the business of the Kingdom. Slaves/bondservants, Gentiles (later), Jews, poor, rich, women and men. This was a Gospel Movement for all.
But this doesn't change the subject of church polity, or what many complimentarians see in scripture as an apostolic model.
They also feel many egalitarians have emotionally-based, culturally-fed arguments, and that many egalitarian scholars have to provide out-of-the-box exegesis to make their case.
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