Timmy Talk

[shazeep]

Truly, Scripture is a sword that divides, and reveals premises. okay, bye!

[shazeep]

Who here has a problem with Love your neighbor? that is 9/10ths of the Law for us. The rest is mostly semantics, imo.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Who here has a problem with Love your neighbor? that is 9/10ths of the Law for us. The rest is mostly semantics, imo.

No one should have a problem with Love Thy Neighbor. But supposedly that teaching comes from the same god who commanded, "Kill them all, even the infants and pregnant women, leave not one alive."

Uh, and just who is our neighbor, Lord?

If you think the contradictions are just semantics, M'kay. (And that's what faith can do.)

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Back to the issue--your desert god Yahweh demonstrates immoral behavior and likewise directed his people toward similar behavior whenever
the situation suited him (AKA situational ethics.) Therefore, since god is never wrong, each instance of badness becomes redefined as GOODNESS
to true believers. And through to today, FAITH forces and reinforces people into justifying such absurdity. (You need to resort to faith when
reason is obviously inadequate.) For brevity, among dozens of similar examples, the desert god Yahwah had no problem with being, when it suited him (or his obedient servants)
-a murderer (I Sam 15:3)
-a vandal (Gen 7:21)
-a thief (Job 1:21)
-a liar (Ezek 14:9)

If there is no morality according to atheists then how could you judge God to be immoral?

Now regarding the other charges, how can God be a murderer since all life is his to give or take away? He is life itself, he gives and takes away life at his own pleasure and he does not have to justify himself to anyone.

actually the fact that God can kill at will should put some fear of God into the atheists for after all you say the devil only has killed a few people while God has killed millions. which only shows the devil to be weaker than God. If the devil could, then he would kill the righteous and let the evil ones live.

The bible says to fear God who can kill not only the body but even the soul. Now Satan only has the limited power to kill those whom God allows him to kill. So if there is someone to fear it should be God.

God owns the whole world, so if he owns the whole world, how could he be accused of taking back what is his?

God is not responsible for the words of the false prophet.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

No one should have a problem with Love Thy Neighbor. But supposedly that teaching comes from the same god who commanded, "Kill them all, even the infants and pregnant women, leave not one alive."

No it does not; not even supposedly. "A new thing I bring you" clearly delineates the old dispensation from the new. I see this all the time from...skeptics? (not sure how you might label yourself) You quote the OT, but live in a different dispensation, that of Grace.

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Uh, and just who is our neighbor, Lord?

that would be the ones not throwing their babies in the fire, as those were doing.

Originally Posted by MarcBee

If you think the contradictions are just semantics, M'kay. (And that's what faith can do.)

ha you seem to have faith that faith is pointless. i have faith in Love your Neighbor. Personally, i would rather believe in a God, and be found wrong, than not believe and be found wrong, if it comes to that. If you are doing your best to be impartial to the world, and feeding orphans or whatever, and can admit your mistakes, but have just rejected the Establishment model of God, then i call you brother.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If there is no morality according to atheists then how could you judge God to be immoral?

Now regarding the other charges, how can God be a murderer since all life is his to give or take away? He is life itself, he gives and takes away life at his own pleasure and he does not have to justify himself to anyone.

actually the fact that God can kill at will should put some fear of God into the atheists for after all you say the devil only has killed a few people while God has killed millions. which only shows the devil to be weaker than God. If the devil could, then he would kill the righteous and let the evil ones live.

The bible says to fear God who can kill not only the body but even the soul. Now Satan only has the limited power to kill those whom God allows him to kill. So if there is someone to fear it should be God.

God owns the whole world, so if he owns the whole world, how could he be accused of taking back what is his?

God is not responsible for the words of the false prophet.

nice!

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If there is no morality according to atheists then how could you judge God to be immoral?

Atheists do not say there is no morality. Atheists do say that morality is innate to human nature and that it evolves culturally, meaning that societies and individuals survive and succeed best (natural selection) when using behavior codes based on say, empathy and cooperation rather than individual selfishness.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Now regarding the other charges, how can God be a murderer since all life is his to give or take away?

Because Might does not make Right. Parents are supposed to be joking when they say, "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out."
(Human life is not like pottery, Paul.)

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

he gives and takes away life at his own pleasure and he does not have to justify himself to anyone.

Correct, your god is beyond all accountability, just like ancient human kings, dictators, tyrants were. A morally respectable god could do much better, and would have no need to ever play the "might makes right" card. It's hard to admire anyone who needs to act like that, especially if they REALLY ARE all-powerful and all-knowing.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

actually the fact that God can kill at will should put some fear of God into the atheists

Then why don't you fear all the other gods that I don't fear? For example, don't you fear what (one of the other) desert gods Allah is going to do to you--you who deny that Mohammed is his messenger? Rather, it seems you are atheist regarding most of the same gods I am, except I just go one god further--YOURS. IOW, knowledge can eradicate fear.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

for after all you say the devil only has killed a few people while God has killed millions.

That's merely according to the bible's own statistics. The real mechanisms behind the killing is simpler--people kill people. Nature kills people. And people just randomly die, of course. But religious men have learned how to seize ripe moments to attribute natural phenomena to the gods and the devils in order to eventually assert their theology (and control) over other people.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

which only shows the devil to be weaker than God.

Right, let's worship the one with the bigger guns and faster bullets.
SO kindergarten!

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If the devil could, then he would kill the righteous and let the evil ones live.

If he could? Meaning the debbil can't kill folk except when unleashed by the Yahweh god to do the dirty work? If so, then your god isn't just a murderer, but a chicken too.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

God owns the whole world, so if he owns the whole world, how could he be accused of taking back what is his?

Since your god is so absolutely unaccountable to anything or anyone, you would not accept any reason concerning your question, "How could he be accused...?" (of anything, really.) I however, can imagine and list all kinds of (so far nonexistent) evidence that would completely change my mind about these issues, especially about the existence of your primitive god Yahweh. Can you list any conceivable body of (for now, just imagined) evidence that would change your mind to NOT believe? Bet you can't. And that's what faith does to people.

[shazeep]

well you talk as if faith came in a vacuum; when for many it is hard won. If you don't believe in God, no one is making you--and why are you here? You betray yourself, as we all do, and if you feel as you do it seems disingenuous of you to be here?

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well you talk as if faith came in a vacuum; when for many it is hard won. If you don't believe in God, no one is making you--and why are you here? You betray yourself, as we all do, and if you feel as you do it seems disingenuous of you to be here?

Disingenuous: (adjective)
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious;


So, first I'm what you suppose is bitter, but now I'm also disingenuous. In formal debate, such ad hominems indicate a losing side senses they have no better points to claim.

But to answer anyhow...
As an Apostolic for 21 years, I was encouraged by my leaders and my beloved scriptures to share my world view with the whole world, because it was supposed to bring people knowledge of a better life. So, I'm merely doing the same thing now (but actually not as vociferously) but now having a different and a more experienced viewpoint. No need for you to get bitter :^) over my freedom of expression here in Timmy Talk. There's always the "ignore" button to avoid those you don't like or can't handle.

I wish I had read in the mid 1980s the kind of evidence, criticism, and reasoning I am asserting today. It maybe would have triggered some cognitive dissonance sooner than the way it did happen for me--too slowly and fearfully.

[Luke]

MarcBee you seem to be really angry with and extremly hate someone you deny even exist. This is something I have never understood about athiest they accuse God of murder and genocide then say that He doesn't exist. This would be equivilant to me accuseing the easterbunny of favoritism because he didn't stop by my house this past easter.