The Crux of the Pro-tithe Argument

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

If you demand that a member to serve on the platform or preach/teach to the assembly must tithe, then you are indirectly forcing them to tithe by using their desire to serve. You would be charging them a mandatory fee to exercise their call, which is totally against the spirit of giving in the NT.

There are some churches that are blessed to build bigger places of worship. Is that wrong? I don't read in the NT about “Building Programs.”

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Almost all false doctrine develops because one does not consider the whole counsel of God. Was Paul wrong in Acts 20? Telling the Elders to work with their own hands?

One thing is for sure. If Paul was wrong, he was consistently wrong.

1Corinthians 4

[9] For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
[10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
[11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
[12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

And in Thessalonians, they were evidently having a problem with elders wanting the church to support them, so they could focus on “full time ministry”.

[10] And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
[11] And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
[12] That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

Evidently, Paul’s commandment was not observed to his satisfaction. In 2 Thessalonians, he reiterated his commandment in even stronger language.

2 Thessalonians 3

[6] Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
[7] For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
[8] Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
[9] Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
[10] For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
[11] For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
[12] Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
[13] But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
[14] And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
[15] Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
[16] Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

There’s a lot of detail in this passage. It seems to be too much to ignore. Unless you want to, I guess.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Where you go to church, does your Pastor force you to pay a 10% tithe?

Every Apostolic church Ive attended preached mandatory tithing and that if you did not tithe it was grounds for hell.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

What?

Voluntary giving is taught in the word.

Giving by compulsion is taught against in the word.

Don’t you agree?

What if we take a poll and we find most of everyone in church loves to give 10% to their Pastor. They support him, there not in some “hostage” situation, they give because they lobe to give. Is that wrong? Or, is it wrong to tell them there wrong to give 10%?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Every Apostolic church Ive attended preached mandatory tithing and that if you did not tithe it was grounds for hell.

I feel bad for you. For being in that type of an abusive church.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

One thing is for sure. If Paul was wrong, he was consistently wrong.

1Corinthians 4

[9] For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
[10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
[11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
[12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

And in Thessalonians, they were evidently having a problem with elders wanting the church to support them, so they could focus on “full time ministry”.

[10] And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
[11] And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
[12] That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

Evidently, Paul’s commandment was not observed to his satisfaction. In 2 Thessalonians, he reiterated his commandment in even stronger language.

2 Thessalonians 3

[6] Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
[7] For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
[8] Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
[9] Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
[10] For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
[11] For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
[12] Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
[13] But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
[14] And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
[15] Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
[16] Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

There’s a lot of detail in this passage. It seems to be too much to ignore. Unless you want to, I guess.

What if the congregation wants there Pastor full time? Will you go against their choice to choose to support their Pastor in a way he doesn’t have to fulfill a worldly job?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

What if the congregation wants there Pastor full time? Will you go against their choice to choose to support their Pastor in a way he doesn’t have to fulfill a worldly job?

Fine. But let it be distinguished openly that is is totally voluntary and has nothing to do with a certain amount or percentage.


People can build any sized clubhouse they want...just dont twist scripture to fund it. Seems to me that there are strict penalties to saying God said or commanded something He didnt actually say or command.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

What if we take a poll and we find most of everyone in church loves to give 10% to their Pastor. They support him, there not in some “hostage” situation, they give because they lobe to give. Is that wrong? Or, is it wrong to tell them there wrong to give 10%?

I don’t tell people they are wrong to give. I tell people they are wrong to teach something that is extra biblical as truth. If someone wants to give a tenth, or a half, that is their business. But they are often doing what they have been taught to do. And SOMETIMES it is as Jediwill says. They are told they will go to hell if they don’t.

I believe that pastors that teach tithe or hell are in grave danger of going to hell themselves. A lot of pastors bought into the teaching of AMF that the tithe is the pastor’s and if you don’t comply you are lost. It is a completely false doctrine.

It is born of covetousness.

It is a lie.

It is idolatrous.

It is extortion.

And any one of these sins will keep you from heaven. According to the New Testament.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are splitting hairs once again. Paul stated that the way the ministry survived by income under Law is the same way that ministers live of the gospel in the New Testament.

Can you explain to me how the tithe generated income in the Old Testament, and how Paul states that it should be the same in the New Testament?

Is income money?

Please expound on this for me.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Like I said the Pastor is not forcing them to pay a 10% tithe. If they don't want to pay that, they are more than welcome to go somewhere else. I don't know a Pastor that knows what everyone in the assembly makes to make sure there giving their 10%, do you?

Brother what do you think Paul meant with compulsion?