Oneness Pentecostals and The Blood Of The Lamb

[Praxeas]

And nobody reads what I posted on what the word redeemed actually means? How can you have a discussion on a word and not define it?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And nobody reads what I posted on what the word redeemed actually means? How can you have a discussion on a word and not define it?

Easy! This is AFF after all...

[Praxeas]

Well redemption is not about ownership. It's about being in prison and the price paid to set that person free. Jesus satisfied our penalty for sin

[RamoneWooddell]

I find it interesting that those who are against OP's view of salvation always trump up the mantra of "works for salvation".

I have a question for you then... If being baptized or speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance are works, and therefore not believing in the sufficiency of the blood of Jesus Christ, then by the same token so would repentance?

Why are you not willing to believe that the blood of Christ is sufficient for the salvation of mankind without the "work" of repentance? After all, is not a work anything that you must do in the process?

Clearly, even believing in the blood would by your supposed definition of a "work" be a work and therefore it is a work. For a work to not be a work, then it must be of faith, and repentance though prompted by faith is not the same as faith. Faith is a gift from God and prompts all kinds of things, like repentance, baptism, holy living, evangelism, and the list goes on.

It would seem therefore that instead of dogging us about salvation, you would be trying to save yourself, no pun intended, and your believe apart from any work.

Why then therefore do you not believe in the all sufficient blood of Jesus Christ?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well redemption is not about ownership. It's about being in prison and the price paid to set that person free. Jesus satisfied our penalty for sin

19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (I Cor 6;19-20)

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

14 who[b] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph 1:13-14)

I also notice that in verse 7, Paul speaks of redemption in the past tense. But in verse 14, he speaks of a time when a physical taking of the purchased ones will occur.

[Praxeas]

So all humans were both purchased and set free the moment Christ died? The issue here really ISN'T if we are redeemed BY the blood of the lamb but when do we become redeemed

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So all humans were both purchased and set free the moment Christ died? The issue here really ISN'T if we are redeemed BY the blood of the lamb but when do we become redeemed

The price for their redemption, and that made God their owner, was paid at Calvary. However, they have to still yield and let God take possession of what he purchased or they remain in bondage. The blood not only brought forgiveness and redemption, but it also earned for Jesus the right to be Lord. and forgiveness is conditional on one surrendering to his Lordship.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The price for their redemption, and that made God their owner, was paid at Calvary. However, they have to still yield and let God take possession of what he purchased or they remain in bondage. The blood not only brought forgiveness and redemption, but it also earned for Jesus the right to be Lord. and forgiveness is conditional on one surrendering to his Lordship.

Exactly! Effective faith brings a response.

"Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith..." Romans 16:25-26 (NIV)

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Ok, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that while the redemption occurred 2000 years ago, the possession didn't occur until the birth of the individual. If that is the case then there is some point in time, after possession, that the individual is discarded or kept. This would be universalism in the sense that as each person is born, that person is redeemed. All the births in the world today result in redeemed infants. As the life is traced for each of these individuals, some will be retained by the redeemer, some will be discarded by the redeemer depending on some future event or behavior or action(s).

The converse would be that newborns are not redeemed and possessed by the redeemer at birth, but are actually unredeemed until some future correct behavior or action by them. This would result in the loss of billions of infants and children over the years who have died in an state of redemption but not possession by the redeemer.

So really, the answer of when is a person redeemed or possessed determines the destination of the individual from birth to death. If they're redeemed and possessed at, or prior to, their birth then they are saved until a certain future point in their life. If they are redeemed, but not possessed, by the redeemer until some future point in their life after their birth then all infants and children are redeemed but unsaved.

Bump.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So all humans were both purchased and set free the moment Christ died? The issue here really ISN'T if we are redeemed BY the blood of the lamb but when do we become redeemed

A person may have been redeemed 2000 years ago but until they are in Christ they have no basis for believing they are one of the redeemed.

Is there a verse which says 'all humans were redeemed'?