Rejoicing In the Sabbath:

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Hey, I'm not opposing any body who wants to keep what they feel is the Lord's commandments.

I'm just against people judging other believers for not keeping the Law

Having said that, I'm reminded of Paul's words:

Rom 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

You esteem the day, so you regard the day unto the Lord.
I do not esteem any day above another, so to the Lord also I regard it

What if Paul wasn't talking about the Sabbath, but rather Jewish feast days (holidays)? Jewish Christians observing them...Gentile Christians not.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Where is the law called carnal?

Hebrews 7:16

[Aquila]

Antinomianism is a doctrine from Hell and smells like smoke.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if Paul wasn't talking about the Sabbath, but rather Jewish feast days (holidays)? Jewish Christians observing them...Gentile Christians not.

The thing though is as long as we separate a Sabbath day from the rest of the days of the week, we are esteeming that day ABOVE the other days. So Paul's point would still count.

He also said "one man esteemeth every day ALIKE" If the sabbath is meant to be kept by distinguishing a specifc day from other days, there's no way Paul would be saying it's ok to esteem every day alike.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

The thing though is as long as we separate a Sabbath day from the rest of the days of the week, we are esteeming that day ABOVE the other days. So Paul's point would still count.

He also said "one man esteemeth every day ALIKE" If the sabbath is meant to be kept by distinguishing a specifc day from other days, there's no way Paul would be saying it's ok to esteem every day alike.

But that isn't the same as saying not to honor the Sabbath. Like circumcision, Paul was most likely addressing Jewish ordinances, feast days. Also note...we are not justified by keeping the Law of God. Being saved we rejoice in it as a Law of Liberty. No man can put me in bondage to arbitrary legalistic rules or traditions. I know God's will and how to live holy. God's Law reveals this.

1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

PSALMS 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

[Jay]

Considering that Jesus never gives a commandment to His disciples to tell Gentiles when to worship, and it is actually never commanded in the New Testament that Gentiles must hold to the Jewish sabbath, I fail to see the point.

I hold with Paul. My best friend is one who observes Sunday as a day that is above everyday, and will do very little except attend services on that day. He and I have discussed our respective positions in the past, and have abided by the words of Paul to the Corinthians in this matter. I do not despise him for his adherence to esteeming one day above another, and he reciprocates.

I do the same thing here.

[Jay]

I have deeper problem with Sabatarianism in that I have seen many other strange doctrines contrary to Scripture rise from it. One has been the forbidding of the eating of meat by certain sects. This was expressly forbidden by the Apostle Paul.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jay

Considering that Jesus never gives a commandment to His disciples to tell Gentiles when to worship, and it is actually never commanded in the New Testament that Gentiles must hold to the Jewish sabbath, I fail to see the point.

Would Jesus need to give a command regarding the Sabbath, seeing that it was already a commandment? Regarding the Law (the Law of God) Jesus states:

Matthew 5:17-19 ESV
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus clearly states that until heaven and earth pass away, “not an iota, not a dot” will pass from the Law…until all is accomplished (the Eternal State). Jesus goes on to admonish that whoever “relaxes one of the least of these commandments (the Law of God) and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven…” Now, from that it becomes obvious that sin against God’s Law can be forgiven. However, when it comes to our eternal reward those who broke the Law of God, and encouraged men to do so, will not attain to any greatness before their Lord. Everyone argues over standards. One church has one set of standards, another church has another. Pastors arbitrarily set standards based on personal convictions and preferences. Why the confusion? (Confusion isn’t from God!). I’ll tell you, because so many have thrown God’s Law away. They want the blessings and the miracles but not the very voice of God saying, “Thou shalt not…!” And so confusion reigns. The answer is to return to God’s Law. Not the Law of Moses. God’s Law was mentioned at the beginning of the Law of Moses, and the entire Law of Moses was given to Moses to Israel to teach them how to obey the Ten Commandments in their culture and with ceremonial ordinances that foreshadowed the New Covenant in the Messiah. What are God’s eternal standards for all men???

I
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me
II
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
III
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord
thy God in vain, for the Lord will not
hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain
IV
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
V
Honor thy father and thy mother,
that thy days may be long upon the land
which the Lord thy God giveth thee
VI
Thou shalt not murder
VII
Thou shalt not commit adultery
VIII
Thou shalt not steal
IX
Thou shalt not bear false witness
against thy neighbor
X
Thou shalt not covet

It’s that simple. Jesus summed them up in two principles. Love God with all your heart, mind, and strength (Commandments 1-4); and love your neighbor as yourself (Commandments 5-10). On these two principles hang the entire Law of God (the Ten Commandments), as seen exemplified in the prophets. To me, it’s a Law of Liberty, a Law of Love. They are the most moral and reasonable precepts ever believed on by men. If you want to truly sanctify yourself and live “holy”…the Law of God embodies what that means. No…we see no dress codes. No…we see no silly standards against beards. However, the letter and the spirit of these precepts will NEVER guide one wrong. I’ve read material from rabbis and theonomists and it is demonstrated that every law in the Law of Moses was designed to preserve Israel from violating one of these Ten Commandments. These commandments embody the very nature of God:

I
God is the only God
II
No material thing can represent our invisible God
III
His name is holy and to be reverenced
IV
He desires a set time of worship and fellowship lest the cares of the world carry us away
V
God cherishes parents
VI
God values human life as being sacred
VII
God is faithful in all things
VIII
God gives us our own blessings and provision
IX
God is truth and no lie is in Him
X
God is wise and should be thanked for what He has given us individually

Those are the basic core values in God’s nature. By obeying the Law of God… we become like Christ, the one who perfectly obeyed the Law, while often pushing the Law of Moses to the breaking point.

God is no longer focused upon a nation as under Moses and the prophets and cultures change. The Law of Moses is obsolete. It was never designed to make one holy, it was designed to leave all convicted of sin and realizing their need of a Savior. In the ceremonial laws we see God’s plan revealed in types and shadows. These were realized in Jesus Christ and so the Law is no longer needed to be a school master pointing us to the one who will come… He has come now. We are to put the Law of Moses aside and embrace Him. God’s nature never changes. God’s moral perspective never changes. These are perfectly embodied in the Ten Commandments.

The Fourth Commandment lays its reason for being in the creation. It doesn’t specifically name Israel. None of the Ten Commandments are tied to the land. They are eternally and immutable. For those who have been redeemed by the blood and who now wish to be sanctified, desperately seeking to know what will please God…we find that answer in the Ten Commandments.

I hold with Paul. My best friend is one who observes Sunday as a day that is above everyday, and will do very little except attend services on that day. He and I have discussed our respective positions in the past, and have abided by the words of Paul to the Corinthians in this matter. I do not despise him for his adherence to esteeming one day above another, and he reciprocates.

I do the same thing here.

Praise the Lord! I do not despise you my brother. I do not doubt your salvation. This is because we are not saved by keeping the Law of God, we are only saved by Christ. However, I do see you refusing the fullness of your sanctification in Christ and possibly loosing the fullness of you reward. Jesus Himself states:

Matthew 5:17-19 ESV
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jay, you are teaching men to break the Fourth Commandment. We can agree on that much. While you think this commandment is no longer something to be kept, I do. Rather it is to still be observed or not… you are the only one breaking it… and teaching others to do so. While I do not believe God will condemn you for all eternity… I do believe that you will discover that you will suffer loss in the Kingdom on account of this difference with God’s Law.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jay

I have deeper problem with Sabatarianism in that I have seen many other strange doctrines contrary to Scripture rise from it. One has been the forbidding of the eating of meat by certain sects. This was expressly forbidden by the Apostle Paul.

Same could be said of the Oneness doctrine or Pentecostalism in general. God revealed to me what I believe to be the key to preventing these false teachings. Do we see any Law in the Ten Commandments regarding diet? Nope. Why? Those laws were only a part of the Law of Moses. When a Sabbatarian fails to distinguish between the Law of God and the Law of Moses they leave the door wide open to reviving the Legalism of the OT. The Ten Commandments are MORAL and SPIRITUAL. The Law of Moses is CARNAL. If a saved individual is seeking sanctification they cannot find it in the Law of Moses. That will only cause them to live in bondage to laws that regulated ancient Israel. However, if a Sabbatarian focuses upon the Law of God for their sanctification…they will never be bound by the laws that regulated ancient Israel. In fact, they will never be bound by ANY man made law or legalistic regulation. Think about it...how could one go wrong by sanctifying themselves in accordance to the Ten Commandments???

The one who seeks his sanctification in obedience to the Law of God will be blessed beyond measure:

Psalm 1:1-6
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Selah.

[Aquila]

And so the Sabbath becomes a golden opportunity to partake in fellowshiping with the Lord as was done since the dawn of creation. A true blessing!