Perplexed!

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by pelathais

From Dan Scott's bio at http://www.christchurchnashville.org/pastors.htm

"... The fruit of his relationships can be seen in his commitment to a convergence of the three streams of Christianity – the sacramental, the evangelical, and the Pentecostal. Dan Scott is passionate about drawing from the strengths of the divergent gifts and insight of the whole Church. He seeks to create spiritual environments that celebrate the traditions of Christian faith, the freedom of the Holy Spirit and the foundation of the Word."

I'm afraid that I don't know the guy at all. I'm more familiar with Bro. Hardwick, though I understand that he has stepped back from a lot of his direct involvement there.

this sounds like something Richard Foster would say. This sounds like Emergent church philosophy.

[Amanah]

Emergent Church Philosophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church

Creative and rediscovered spirituality
This can involve everything from expressive, neocharismatic style of worship and the use of contemporary music and films to more ancient liturgical customs and eclectic expressions of spirituality, with the goal of making the church gathering reflect the local community's tastes.

Emerging church practitioners are happy to take elements of worship from a wide variety of historic traditions, including traditions of the Catholic Church, the Anglican churches, the Orthodox churches, and Celtic Christianity. From these and other religious traditions emerging church groups take, adapt and blend various historic church practices including liturgy, prayer beads, icons, spiritual direction, the labyrinth, and lectio divina. The Emerging Church is also sometimes called the "Ancient-Future" church.[61]

One of the key social drives in Western Post-industrialised countries, is the rise in new/old forms of mysticism.[62][63] This rise in spirituality appears to be driven by the effects of consumerism, globalisation and advances in information technology.[64] Therefore, the Emerging Church is operating in a new context of postmodern spirituality, as a new form of mysticism. This capitalizes on the social shift in starting assumptions from the situation that most are regarded as materialist/atheist (the modern position), to the fact that many people now believe in and are searching for something more spiritual (postmodern view). This has been characterised as a major shift from religion to spirituality.[65]

So, in the new world of 'spiritual tourism', the Emerging Church Movement is seeking to missionally assist people to shift from being spiritual tourists to Christian pilgrims. Many are drawing on ancient Christian resources recontextualised into the contemporary such as contemplation and contemplative forms of prayer, symbolic multi-sensory worship, story telling and many others.[66] This again has required a change in focus as the majority of unchurched and dechurched people are seeking 'something that works' rather than something that is 'true'.[67]

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

I attend a large ex-UPC church. I found out this week that during our Youth Camp this past summer, our youth were baptized in the "titles" instead of "Jesus name" by the youth leaders! In addition to that, each were told to make the sign of the cross after they came out of the water!

Being born and raised in the Apostolic faith, I am spitting nails! Not only are those youth leaders still in place, I'm not sure they were ever reprimanded!

For the first time in years, I'm contemplating a move. Not sure. Someone has some 'splaining to do!

Don't be perplexed, you have just encountered the next gen emergent church movement of Brian McLaren

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Amanah

this sounds like something Richard Foster would say. This sounds like Emergent church philosophy.

I don't know Foster either. I was a History major and I'm afraid that keeping track of a lot of contemporary "media stars" strikes me as being a bit too short sighted especially when looking at the long stretches of history. That and I am not able to follow most of the videos and audio tracks everyone shares due to my hearing impairment.

In taking a longer look at Church history, I do see trends like what Scott is describing. It's something that has always been a part of the Christian experience. It's sort of like those streams way up high in mountain meadows. As they empty out of a canyon or draw, the flow of the stream breaks apart and rejoins repeatedly as it crosses the meadow or field. From above, if the light hits the water just right, it looks like a silver braid.

Believers have always been faced with trying to evaluate "what to keep" and what can be tossed overboard. It's a difficult task but our ship won't sail with all of the junk we acquire over time. What do we need to kept ourselves on course and to keep the sails in the wind? Everything else is just "nice to have" for some and a stumbling block for others.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I don't know Foster either. I was a History major and I'm afraid that keeping track of a lot of contemporary "media stars" strikes me as being a bit too short sighted especially when looking at the long stretches of history. That and I am not able to follow most of the videos and audio tracks everyone shares due to my hearing impairment.

In taking a longer look at Church history, I do see trends like what Scott is describing. It's something that has always been a part of the Christian experience. It's sort of like those streams way up high in mountain meadows. As they empty out of a canyon or draw, the flow of the stream breaks apart and rejoins repeatedly. From above, if the light hits the water just right, it looks like a silver braid.

Believers have always been faced with trying to evaluate "what to keep" and what can be tossed overboard. It's a difficult task but our ship won't sail with all of the junk we acquire over time. What do we need to kept ourselves on course and to keep the sails in the wind? Everything else is just "nice to have" for some and a stumbling block for others.

Pel, It's important to read up on the Emergent Church movement and Brian McLaren

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Pel, It's important to read up on the Emergent Church movement.

I'm familiar with the trend but it just strikes me as being more about "style" than substance. I was preaching with my shirt untucked long before it was ever "cool" or "emergent."

Other than that, it's pretty much the same argument, just in different terms, that has always been going on.

[deltaguitar]

Usually when I here our pastor talk about the trinity it actually sounds very Oneness. I often hear statements often that Jesus created the world, or that God is one being tri-une in nature.

The distinction among the Godhead is relational and the way that relationship has been described has been with the word "person".

The following are things that I feel Oneness theology misses. I am not like most trinitarians who believe that Oneness people are not saved. We are not saved because of our understanding. However, I do believe there are many pentecostal people who are not saved because of the doctrines that distract them from the gospel and instead of being born again they follow a three step formula.

Oneness theology misses out on the relationship within the Godhead. I hear a lot of teaching about the Father's relationship with the Son and the completeness and

Oneness theology misses the concept of the Father giving to the son the elect and the Son interceding on our behalf.

Oneness theology misses the idea that Jesus submitted himself in humility to the will of the Father. How can Jesus submit to himself?

Oneness theology misses the idea that Jesus was SENT into the world.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm familiar with the trend but it just strikes me as being more about "style" than substance. I was preaching with my shirt untucked long before it was ever "cool" or "emergent."

Other than that, it's pretty much the same argument, just in different terms, that has always been going on.

Ok, did you know that the teleological end of the Emergent church movement is universalism?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Ok, did you know that the teleological end of the Emergent church movement is universalism?

"Universalism" has been a Christian theme throughout the history of the Church, though never the majority opinion. "We" really have been here before.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Usually when I here our pastor talk about the trinity it actually sounds very Oneness. I often hear statements often that Jesus created the world, or that God is one being tri-une in nature.

The distinction among the Godhead is relational and the way that relationship has been described has been with the word "person".

The following are things that I feel Oneness theology misses. I am not like most trinitarians who believe that Oneness people are not saved. We are not saved because of our understanding. However, I do believe there are many pentecostal people who are not saved because of the doctrines that distract them from the gospel and instead of being born again they follow a three step formula.

Oneness theology misses out on the relationship within the Godhead. I hear a lot of teaching about the Father's relationship with the Son and the completeness and

Oneness theology misses the concept of the Father giving to the son the elect and the Son interceding on our behalf.

Oneness theology misses the idea that Jesus submitted himself in humility to the will of the Father. How can Jesus submit to himself?

Oneness theology misses the idea that Jesus was SENT into the world.

Actually Oneness misses none of these things. Those who misunderstand oneness miss them. To say that Jesus submits to Himself in Oneness if it is true that He submitted to the Father is to not have understood what Oneness teaches about humanity versus deity. So many "leave Oneness" when in actuality they never understood oneness to begin with and left something oneness never taught.