UPCI pastor resigns amid teen sex charges

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Liberal

True. Maybe someone will eventually.

It is a public issue but I'm hoping that we, as followers of Christ, will believe in him first and let the process take place. And if my pleadings have given the impression that I would ever justify these potential actions, nothing could be further from the truth. And I find the suggestions that some have made that it's in any way whatsoever the girl's fault, to be repulsive. Scotty's situation when the age difference was 15 to 22 is another story. But 16 and 47? The girl could have an ounce of fault...if it's true.

I've been involved with a case where a man was falsely accused and every ounce of public information was against him. But when everything was uncovered, he was vindicated. But the man went through hell, lost everything including his family for a good while, but the things said about him will never go away.

And those cases are heart wrenching as well, which is why there needs to be solid evidence. There seems to be quite a bit in this case so far though, if what the papers say is true.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by DAII

Hello ... pastors are there to be a guide who uses a moral compass (the Word)... to all sinners he encounters ... there is a trust that he will do that with all his parishioners ... whether they're 6, 16, or 86.

Really ? You have posted enough negative here on this forum about things such as this that one would be hard pressed to trust any pastor with anything. Are you a pastor ? Leader in the church ? How are we sure that your to be trusted ?

Preachers are human, just like the rest of us. Yes , they should be held to a higher standard, but they are still human. And since it seems everyones compass seems to read differently, where then is that trust laid ? For someone who enjoys pointing out the faults in preachers and teachers its kinda funny now how you expect one to be so perfect.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by ILG

And those cases are heart wrenching as well, which is why there needs to be solid evidence. There seems to be quite a bit in this case so far though, if what the papers say is true.

I used an incorrect word in the post you responded to. I said the "girl could have an ounce of fault" and it should be "Couldn't". Sorry.

I have a very, very, very hard time taking at face value what newspapers say. The misrepresentation and outright falsehoods that are routine, are shocking.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by scotty

Im not blaming her, thats the point you are missing. I am blaming... i dont know, i guess a society that doesnt see this as a problem.

Willing means exactly what it says. She was willing to do this. She was willing before him and even after him she was willing to have sex again and did. This is the problem I am addressing. Yes, some girls are manipulated or brainwashed, I understand and believe that, but I also know that many girls just see it as a part of their life or something that is perfectly ok to do.

And believe me , she is perfectly fine, she is 20 now and to this day she will tell you she done nothing wrong because it is her life and her perogative. Thats what you dont understand, your trying to protect someone who doesnt want your protection. They dont want you to call them the victim because they made the decision on their own. She refused to press charges, not because she loved him but because "it was my choice, I wanted to".

Scotty, your daughter is acting pretty normally for what has happened. Just for the record, I worked as a domestic violence advocate for a year and a half. I also worked with sexually abused victims during that time. Although this does not make me an expert, I can say with a pretty good amount of certainty that you are thoroughly confused about what happened with your daughter, why it happened, and why she continues to act the way she does. You need to gain understanding. I will say she was probably attracted to the 22 year old.

She is NOT perfectly fine. She was victimized and taken advantage of. Society is at fault, yes. I agree with that. Society teaches both males and females wrong values. So, blame society, but understand your daughter is still totally confused. Sex abuse victims almost ALWAYS blame themselves. What happened was so traumatic that denial and pretending to be in control is easier.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by DAII

Outrageous ... the first few posts on this thread.

As a libertarian, I more than believe that any alleged suspect in a crime is innocent until proven guilty and record shows I'm ALL FOR DUE PROCESS IN THIS CASE or ANY CASE.

But the calls to silence these type of threads is all but SICKENING ....
Same thing happened even when 12 jurors (the defendants own peers) found Pastor Fogarty guilty for slandering Angela Driver ... cat calls for "WHY WE TALKING ABOUT THIS HERE!"

It makes one very cynical and suspicious as to motive...

I could post dozens of court cases we've discussed and "thrashed" where the alleged has all but "admitted" to the crime ...

Remember this guy we've discussed AD NAUSEUM? As it stands ... RIGHT NOW ... OFFICIALLY HE'S INNOCENT.



That said ...

I've combed through articles regarding this Monk case ... Liberal ... and can you tell me the link or inside source you have where Monk told the judge he was essentially set up ... by either his accusers, the local police and/or the district attorney or that somehow the court documents stating his admission to being her "boyfriend" was done under duress.

Really?

1. As it stands, the only charge this 'minister' is facing is sexual battery. Why because apparently, in Ohio, a 16 year old MINOR can consent to sex with a married man ... or any man for that matter.

2. If I read the article correctly, the police were able to file charges only when they could prove he is a man in "authority" or of the cloth. Thus, the sexual battery charge.

It's mind boggling that Aquila would get on here too ... and somehow blame a child for this heinous act of mistrust allegedly perpetrated by a man who is married and who most likely used his authority and trust to prey on a family that was going through a divorce and prey on the weakest among them.

I don't care if the girl was in her birthday suit, spread eagle ... it in no way vindicates what has happened here.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ILG

Scotty, your daughter is acting pretty normally for what has happened. Just for the record, I worked as a domestic violence advocate for a year and a half. I also worked with sexually abused victims during that time. Although this does not make me an expert, I can say with a pretty good amount of certainty that you are thoroughly confused about what happened with your daughter, why it happened, and why she continues to act the way she does. You need to gain understanding. I will say she was probably attracted to the 22 year old.

She is NOT perfectly fine. She was victimized and taken advantage of. Society is at fault, yes. I agree with that. Society teaches both males and females wrong values. So, blame society, but understand your daughter is still totally confused. Sex abuse victims almost ALWAYS blame themselves. What happened was so traumatic that denial and pretending to be in control is easier.

Now I see your understanding. Ok, there will be no way you could understand from this side of the fence or in personal experience. But thank you for your conversation.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Sometimes, Scotty, the person is willing. Sometimes they are not. Whether she was willing or unwilling is a moot point in determining his guilt. There are thankfully few men who succumb to the temptations of a 16 year old simply because she is willing, though I must admit that sleeping with a man 31 years older than me was never something that interested me even as a curious teen. And if she pursued him, he should have been even more cautious to have another party present when (if) he counseled her. Or better yet, he should have recommended she get counsel from someone else.

However, was she willing? I've seen a lot of people do things that went against their conscience or even blatantly against the Bible because someone convinced them they should or because in an emotional high or low they simply made a huge mistake. I've also seen people willingly do things that they later denied wanting to do due to embarrassment or guilt. I won't pass judgment either way.

Originally Posted by DAII

Hello ... pastors are there to be a guide who uses a moral compass (the Word)... to all sinners he encounters ... there is a trust that he will do that with all his parishioners ... whether they're 6, 16, or 86.

Dan, hi to you, too.

What does your post have to do with mine?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by scotty

Now I see your understanding. Ok, there will be no way you could understand from this side of the fence or in personal experience. But thank you for your conversation.

You don't have a clue. But I see you are going to brush me off anyway. I find that sad. Unfortunate for your daughters.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by DAII

Now minors, in the Apostolica, are adults if they're teens and sexually curious ... but hardly weak in the hands of a manipulator who may use his status of trust to prey on them... gotcha.

That you would somehow bring your daughters into your argument troubles me.

[MissBrattified]

scotty, I agree with ILG that even though your story is relevant to this thread and explains your perspective, it shouldn't be posted. Your daughter deserves to be protected from having her mistakes and/or traumatic experiences made public.

I think you're missing the point here: Even if a young girl WANTS to have a sexual experience, if an adult takes advantage of the awakening sexuality in any young person, they are at fault. Reversing the scenario, there are lots of very young teenage and preteen boys who would be interested in having sex with just about anyone, but it would be abuse for an adult woman to take advantage of their vulnerability simply because they have strong urges.

It's especially abusive for a person in a position of authority over another to take advantage of someone in that way, especially if the victim is very young. A young person having sexual desires, fantasies and feelings isn't a mark of maturity, and doesn't negate the responsibility of the adult in a situation.

Personally, I find it interesting that you're dwelling on the fact that your daughter WANTED to have sex with the 22 year old. It's actually very COMMON for young girls to have crushes on older men, especially teachers and men in authority positions. Men can very easily take advantage of those situations. I don't find anything odd about a 16 year old girl having sexual fantasies about a 22 year old man and wanting to act on them. Would you find it odd for a 16 year old boy to have sexual feelings toward a 22 year old woman? Why is there a "why" here? Teenagers are blossoming into adults, and sexuality is part of that "awakening." There's nothing to be confused about. The fact that a teenager would want to have sex is nothing new and says nothing bad about your daughter's character.