How Old is the Earth?

[mizpeh]

For anyone interested in a good discuss on Gen 1 including the word, yom......



http://theologica.ning.com/forum/top...tion-arguments

[mizpeh]

Is this too much common sense?

"In regard to day, evening and morning, I'm not talking about defining one by the other. Maybe I said something like that. But evening is the end of a day, the illumined part of the cycle. I can't pull out citations right now. But it is clearly parallel to sunset in some passages. Some of those about being unclean until evening, and then referencing sunset. There is some range though. As I recall the Passover is said to be eaten "between the evenings."

Morning too is the beginning of the "day," the illumined part of the cycle. Similar passages demonstrate this.

As far as Genesis 1 is concerned, yom is virutally defined in v. 5, "he called the light day." Now that takes some mulling over, but we already see the illumined part of the cycle called a day. Yes, even if there is no sun.

Now when we get to the part where it says "one day" then I suppose the question comes up what is the meaning of "day"?

Now in the first place, there just isn't any evident meaning in the OT, certainly not in the Pentateuch for yom to mean "an indefinite period of time." However, even if we get such an idea in our heads, that this meaning is possible, we have to verify that it is in fact the meaning here. It isn't just a menu of options--all are equal and I can choose the one that suits me best. If I have doubt, hesitation between two options, I can look at the context.

If I say "I bought a lemon yesterday," you might have legitimate doubt whether I am talking about a fruit or a car.

If I go on to complain about the carburator and the tires, and getting my $15000 dollars back, you could surmise that those details are most compatible with an account of buyer's remorse over a dysfunctional car.

If instead I start to talk about my desire to eat healthier, and drink more water, and that putting slices in will make it more appetizing, and then go on about Vitamin C, you'd be justified in concluding that I meant "lemon" to express the fruit sense. Because I am using terms in that semantic domain.

In the case of yom, the fact that I am counting them, and that in the end I reference not only the seventh day of creation but "the seventh day" that was blessed, being associated with rest, then I am tying in the week with its Sabbath day. Also I reference two other words in that semantic domain, evening and morning. It's as if I were talking about lemons and said skin and juice. To anyone with an ounce of objectivity, it's pretty much a slam dunk that I'm talking about the fruit called lemon, and the chronological unit called "day."

I frankly cannot see what is so difficult about this." http://theologica.ning.com/forum/top...age=6#comments

[pastor febus]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this too much common sense?

"In regard to day, evening and morning, I'm not talking about defining one by the other. Maybe I said something like that. But evening is the end of a day, the illumined part of the cycle. I can't pull out citations right now. But it is clearly parallel to sunset in some passages. Some of those about being unclean until evening, and then referencing sunset. There is some range though. As I recall the Passover is said to be eaten "between the evenings."

Morning too is the beginning of the "day," the illumined part of the cycle. Similar passages demonstrate this.

As far as Genesis 1 is concerned, yom is virutally defined in v. 5, "he called the light day." Now that takes some mulling over, but we already see the illumined part of the cycle called a day. Yes, even if there is no sun.

Now when we get to the part where it says "one day" then I suppose the question comes up what is the meaning of "day"?

Now in the first place, there just isn't any evident meaning in the OT, certainly not in the Pentateuch for yom to mean "an indefinite period of time." However, even if we get such an idea in our heads, that this meaning is possible, we have to verify that it is in fact the meaning here. It isn't just a menu of options--all are equal and I can choose the one that suits me best. If I have doubt, hesitation between two options, I can look at the context.

If I say "I bought a lemon yesterday," you might have legitimate doubt whether I am talking about a fruit or a car.

If I go on to complain about the carburator and the tires, and getting my $15000 dollars back, you could surmise that those details are most compatible with an account of buyer's remorse over a dysfunctional car.

If instead I start to talk about my desire to eat healthier, and drink more water, and that putting slices in will make it more appetizing, and then go on about Vitamin C, you'd be justified in concluding that I meant "lemon" to express the fruit sense. Because I am using terms in that semantic domain.

In the case of yom, the fact that I am counting them, and that in the end I reference not only the seventh day of creation but "the seventh day" that was blessed, being associated with rest, then I am tying in the week with its Sabbath day. Also I reference two other words in that semantic domain, evening and morning. It's as if I were talking about lemons and said skin and juice. To anyone with an ounce of objectivity, it's pretty much a slam dunk that I'm talking about the fruit called lemon, and the chronological unit called "day."

I frankly cannot see what is so difficult about this." http://theologica.ning.com/forum/top...age=6#comments

Have you ever considered the word day to be in the prophetic mode as opposed to a twenty four hour period? For example "the day" of the Lord?
It may be profitable to consider the whole chapter of Genesis 1 in the light of prophetic rendering as opposed to a literal creation of the universe.
Just a thought

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this too much common sense?

"In regard to day, evening and morning, I'm not talking about defining one by the other. Maybe I said something like that. But evening is the end of a day, the illumined part of the cycle. I can't pull out citations right now. But it is clearly parallel to sunset in some passages. Some of those about being unclean until evening, and then referencing sunset. There is some range though. As I recall the Passover is said to be eaten "between the evenings."

Morning too is the beginning of the "day," the illumined part of the cycle. Similar passages demonstrate this.

As far as Genesis 1 is concerned, yom is virutally defined in v. 5, "he called the light day." Now that takes some mulling over, but we already see the illumined part of the cycle called a day. Yes, even if there is no sun.

Now when we get to the part where it says "one day" then I suppose the question comes up what is the meaning of "day"?

Now in the first place, there just isn't any evident meaning in the OT, certainly not in the Pentateuch for yom to mean "an indefinite period of time." However, even if we get such an idea in our heads, that this meaning is possible, we have to verify that it is in fact the meaning here. It isn't just a menu of options--all are equal and I can choose the one that suits me best. If I have doubt, hesitation between two options, I can look at the context.

If I say "I bought a lemon yesterday," you might have legitimate doubt whether I am talking about a fruit or a car.

If I go on to complain about the carburator and the tires, and getting my $15000 dollars back, you could surmise that those details are most compatible with an account of buyer's remorse over a dysfunctional car.

If instead I start to talk about my desire to eat healthier, and drink more water, and that putting slices in will make it more appetizing, and then go on about Vitamin C, you'd be justified in concluding that I meant "lemon" to express the fruit sense. Because I am using terms in that semantic domain.

In the case of yom, the fact that I am counting them, and that in the end I reference not only the seventh day of creation but "the seventh day" that was blessed, being associated with rest, then I am tying in the week with its Sabbath day. Also I reference two other words in that semantic domain, evening and morning. It's as if I were talking about lemons and said skin and juice. To anyone with an ounce of objectivity, it's pretty much a slam dunk that I'm talking about the fruit called lemon, and the chronological unit called "day."

I frankly cannot see what is so difficult about this." http://theologica.ning.com/forum/top...age=6#comments

Excellent points.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pastor febus

Have you ever considered the word day to be in the prophetic mode as opposed to a twenty four hour period? For example "the day" of the Lord?
It may be profitable to consider the whole chapter of Genesis 1 in the light of prophetic rendering as opposed to a literal creation of the universe.
Just a thought

There are many meanings to the word, day. Each has to be taken in the context it is given. A prophetic rendering is possible for the word, day, but it has to be contextually correct.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Excellent points.

The entire thread from which I took this quote on Theologica is interesting reading.

[pastor febus]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

There are many meanings to the word, day. Each has to be taken in the context it is given. A prophetic rendering is possible for the word, day, but it has to be contextually correct.

One reason that I reject the 24 hour motif in Genesis 1 is because the seventh day does not have "evening and the morning" for the seventh day.
The entire chapter of Genesis 1 begs for an alagorical approach but it is truly a golden calf to many and will not venture to examine its prophetic under pinnings.

God bless

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by pastor febus

One reason that I reject the 24 hour motif in Genesis 1 is because the seventh day does not have "evening and the morning" for the seventh day.
The entire chapter of Genesis 1 begs for an alagorical approach but it is truly a golden calf to many and will not venture to examine its prophetic under pinnings.

God bless

Pastor Febus...

I just wanted to say that after reading your posts for a while on various subjects you have a refreshingly well rounded view on a lot of things. I really enjoy your posts.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by jfrog

mizpeh,

Let's assume that God made this earth and even the whole universe only 10,000 years ago. So, why did God sprinkle dinosaur bones all over the earth? No doubt, to make the earth look mature. But why would dinosaur bones make the earth look mature? Because in the mind of God the earth had a history dating back to the time of the dinosaurs and even before!

I don't really care whether dinosaurs only existed in the mind of God or whether they existed in reality. Heck, I'm not even sure there can be a difference between what takes place in the mind of God and what takes place in reality. But assuming there can be a difference in the two, why would Christians not hold the things which happened only in God's mind in equal esteem to the things which happened in reality?

What I am trying to say is that even if dinosaurs only walked the earth in God's mind isn't that enough to say that they are real and that they really walked on a 100+ million year younger earth?

bump for mizpeh

[pastor febus]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Pastor Febus...

I just wanted to say that after reading your posts for a while on various subjects you have a refreshingly well rounded view on a lot of things. I really enjoy your posts.

You do not know how refreshing your communication was to me today. We have labored for years and have endured our share of abuse and it is good to hear positive feedback every now and then. The nature of our teaching is not designed for the weak kneed or for those who desire to be recieved by the status quo. That being said we understand that the abuse comes with the territory. If we cannot take the heat we need to get out of the kitchen.
Thanks again,
Your Brother
Francis G. Febus