DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by missourimary

I don't have a "problem" with any, but here are a few standards that I've had taught that I haven't found scripture for yet:
open toed shoes
slits (that don't go above the knee)
chaperones for dating and engaged couples of any age
all movies prohibited (not all are wicked, so don't head to Psalms 101)
no secular music
no alcohol

Now some things are just not expedient, we all know that. But what is expedient may vary from person to person and situation to situation.

Open-toed shoes. That's funny.

Some of those are more community mores than anything else (chaperones, for example). Yes, you won't find scripture speaking to any of those. But OP's will claim that's the ministries duty -- to make that modern-day application.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

So, very true.

RG, this is why I understand when some jump ship completely to non-denom orgs, AOG orgs, etc... They want to inject themselves and their families into a culture of people that aren't experimenting, but already have a balanced culture.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Are you claiming your standards are that of the Early Church (assuming the Early Church used words like "standards")???? Please articulate which ones you share in common. And then cite a source for which supports that fact (either scriptural or historical will do)

I would say YES, emphatically. They are shared with the 1st century church. Considering the fact that...well....they (the apostles) wrote the scripture in the 1st century of the church.

And yes....STANDARD is in the BIBLE.

Standard = An acknowledged measure of comparison for quantitative or qualitative value; a criterion.

Jeffrey, I dont have a problem with our doctrine or standards....so you pick the subject and we will continue.

[missourimary]

I just deleted my original because I liked the line of thought this was going. But I would be interested in hearing scripture.

Opened toed shoes really gets me. What do they think the Disciples wore? Sandals don't generally cover the entire foot to the ankle, after all...

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

DA, those leaving are presented with some harsh realities. First, a rejection of those they've known for years. Second, the ugly reality that many UPC churches that leave deal with many issues not common with your local AOG or Baptist church down the road. It's as if the new-found freedom takes over. Instead of the raw Jesus culture, unfortunately, many turn to license for anything to feed their carnal appetite. They are leaving to fulfill a Jesus appetite, and instead encounter people unsure how to balance themselves without the heavy weights of Old Pentecost on their back. So, many fall. Some, wobble around. Some have permanent crooked backs. Some figure it out and get through it. But make no mistake, all of us are scarred, because we were wired in a such a way that viewed God, the church, the ministry and the world in a certain way that it's hard to undo.

That's very true. We could start a thread on this thought that could last decades.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

RG, this is why I understand when some jump ship completely to non-denom orgs, AOG orgs, etc... They want to inject themselves and their families into a culture of people that aren't experimenting, but already have a balanced culture.

So many things to say.

[freeatlast]

I wouldn't kind seeing DuetCh8 give us scripture that teaches a new testament women that she can not wear a bifurcated garment.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Open-toed shoes. That's funny.

Some of those are more community mores than anything else (chaperones, for example). Yes, you won't find scripture speaking to any of those. But OP's will claim that's the ministries duty -- to make that modern-day application.

I dont think theres anything wrong with "open toed" shoes. Its not biblical. But the Bible does give authority to the minstry to use their own judgement. That is Biblical. Dont like it....go to another church. If it can be backed up with a Biblical "precept or principal" thats different.

[missourimary]

Problem is, what ship to jump to? UPC isn't the only one that is "sinking"... Many denominations are struggling with issues of worship, music, acceptance... just in an entirely different way that OP.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

But make no mistake, all of us are scarred, because we were wired in a such a way that viewed God, the church, the ministry and the world in a certain way that it's hard to undo.

Sigh ... ain't dat da troof.