Local Church BODY

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Brother Epley has expressed this very well.

What you may or may not realize or believe, Michelle, is that we have seen lots of folks say the exact same things you are saying, and we have seen where that road leads.

It is heartbreaking to a man who cares about people to see some who insist on re-inventing the wheel, not realizing that they aren't following some new path of divine revelation, but rather an old tried and true deception.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I never said I do not recognize your sisterhood if you remember I suggested a church to you and took time to speak to the pastor about you. I am concerned about your eternity. I have read the Book and the future is not bright for those who reject Biblical leadership and the church to go on explorations not endorsed by the Bible. After seeing folks many whom I loved turn out shipwrecked their families destroyed and many getting involved in some way out false doctrine down the road the signs are all the same. No pastor wants to pastor a person whose brain is in neutral and is blind. That is a wrong perception but pastors do get alarmed when those under their care become elusive and unpredictable. There is nothing as frustrating as trying to save someone from self-destruction who does not have a clue that is the trail they are taking. Paul speaks of those 'who oppose themselves' saving those folks is nearly impossible and very heatbreaking to a pastor who loves those in his charge. We have had some strong bantering in the preceeding posts but now I am opening my heart. It is like being a doctor that cares for a patient and the tests come back bad and the patient is determine not to take the treatment. But honestly the patient is NOT smarter than the doctor on this matter. This is the doctor's life. All you folks go ahead a butcher my openess but I am afraid for you I do NOT hate or dispise you I hate what is going to destroy you and your families.

But its not the Pastor's job to fix me or save me. That's Jesus' job. And no pastor should try to take His place.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

But its not the Pastor's job to fix me or save me. That's Jesus' job. And no pastor should try to take His place.

The perfecting (fixing) of the saints requires the work of the ministry, Michelle.

No pastor I know wants to take the place of Jesus. That would be assinine.

But the pastor does have a role, and the Bible lays that out very clearly.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Sigh...this saddens me Bro. C.

I am not trying for a new revelation or trying to "reinvent the wheel", I simply want to get to know Jesus, and try to figure out why I should even want to follow him.

I thought that was a noble cause. You all make sound like if I really get to know Jesus, without focusing on the rules, that i will be lost. That saddens me. There seems to be no room in the apostolic church for questions or doubts, or even Jesus.

I could go back today, this moment. Stick myself back in the little box, start following all the rules, go to church 3 times a week, and be the perfect little apostolic saint, but without Jesus what in the world does that matter???

I said nothing, absolutely nothing, about rules.

I just don't see how you or anyone can figure on getting to know Jesus and bypass the very things He has set in order to help you along the way.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Don't you guys worry pastors are typed as shepherds and they lead SHEEP they are not herders. SHEEP follow others animals are driven and some can't not hardly be driven at all. So if you don't follow anyone then it depicts what you are not.

copy-cat I already said that awhile back....

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

I have one question though...

Which is a greater sign of "ego"?

Person A: Who believes (without having any proof) that the supreme being of the entire universe has commissioned them specifically to be his intermediary that everyone else needs to submit to...

Or

Person B: One who is not willing to accept person A's perceived position without any proof

You guys talk about how serious this all is and that we are talking about eternity... that means that the very first thing you should do is authenticate the authority of those you are going to submit to, prior to submitting to them.

If some guy tried to pull you over and write you a ticket and he doesn't have any way of proving that he represents the local government, do you mail your check to the address on the ticket, or do you just ignore it?

I don't know how many more analogies I will have to come up with to explain my position... it seems clear that everyone is making a leap in logic just because everyone else has made the leap in logic and it is easier than starting from the beginning and validating the authority that people claim to have.

Back to the Noah example (that someone else used recently)... it's one thing for Noah to preach for 100 years out of 950 that a flood is coming...

It is another thing if there were 500 Noah's all on the same street, each building an ark, each in the same 100 year period, and each claiming something slightly different, but unique enough that their way is the only way and all of the other 499 Noah's are wrong... that is the way society is today. Everyone is the messenger of God, and all the others are just fakers. lol.

Brad, I addressed this in an earlier post a page or so back.

The body of Christ, defined by those born again, recognizes ministry that is called and has proven itself.

Of course, if you don't trust the Bible or much of anything else, we really can't come to any consensus because we are approaching the subject from two totally different paradigms, and we don't define the basic terms of the discussion the same.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am NOT trying top back pedal if you don't have a preacher in your life to Hell you will go! God is not going to rewrite the Bible to please some disgruntles that have went from place to place and couldn't spell faithfulness if their life depended on it(and it does). Evil beasts-brute beasts that dispise governments and speak evil of dignities are spoken of as wandering stars.

While the Bible does say we need a preacher, it does not say pastor. One could listen to a preacher via the internet and technically follow Romans 10:14.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Twisp

While the Bible does say we need a preacher, it does not say pastor. One could listen to a preacher via the internet and technically follow Romans 10:14.

If you are looking for "technicalities" to avoid the relationship and accountability that comes with being part of a local church with a pastor, there are big time problems.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

If you are looking for "technicalities" to avoid the relationship and accountability that comes with being part of a local church with a pastor, there are big time problems.

I'm not looking for technicalities, what I said was true. The verse makes a clear distinction when it says "preacher". I do believe a preacher is needed to be saved, according to this scripture. I merely find it odd that he said preacher instead of pastor.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Twisp

I'm not looking for technicalities, what I said was true. The verse makes a clear distinction when it says "preacher". I do believe a preacher is needed to be saved, according to this scripture. I merely find it odd that he said preacher instead of pastor.

That isn't the only verse in the Bible.

The perfecting of the saints cannot be accomplished without the five fold ministry.

The context of the verse you cite is the initial hearing of the Gospel.

That is just the beginning.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I feel local church attendance is important ,and everybody needs fellowship with others.

I believe that too, Scott...........

With those of like faith.